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Why Do Psychopaths Lie? — 213 Comments

  1. That is interesting. If autism’s caused by an autoimmune anomaly, I wonder if the seemingly disparate disorders have something more in common, such as vaccines, drugs and/or chemicals, toxins in food and environment, especially treated water, microwaved food, etc., either through the mother or postpartum.

    • Ancient Heart,
      there is no doubt in my mind that gluten and casein are triggers for people with autism. Many, many of them improve on what’s called the GAPS diet.

      Interestingly, I had heard many years ago that people with HIV also improve on a gluten free diet. So this new information serves to confirm the old.

      I’ve been researching homeopathy for autism and there are some who say the the TB test is a trigger for autistics. It makes their symptoms worse. They have a slightly different approach to health, but it does integrate with what we know about the immune system.

      Environment can’t be ruled out when it comes to the immune system because, after all, that’s what the immune system is for: dealing with the environment.

      • I bet colloidal silver would help alleviate or even cure both disorders. CS is incredible stuff. Robert O. Becker got his funding pulled because he found a way to even regenerate cell tissue using CS and a weak DC current setup. The pharma and med establishments pulled his funds and pretty well silenced him. Same shit, different day, huh?

        It can’t be taken every day, it has to be on/off dosing, depending on what it’s used for, of course, this is only a general rule: usually a loading dose for 2 weeks and then afterward 10 day doses every 30 days, always taking any type of probiotics along with the CS to keep the pH balanced. Not rocket science, but usually people get too carried away and think more is better, then screw up their systems LOL.

        • Ancientheart,
          I have heard of the effectiveness of colloidal silver, but not of using a weak electric current with it. I’ll bet that changes things!
          Electroshock therapy, though it sounds cruel, has been known to be effective for depression. We are electrochemical beings after all.

          • The DC currents were extremely weak, and they were pulsed, just as the Earth’s DC current pulses naturally.

  2. There wasn’t a space for reply where the last conversation left off about the gaps diet. Referencing this article, why psychopaths lie, there were two links to related articles, one of them to sott.net which is a fear mongering site hosted by a psychopath who believes she’s an alien, for crying out loud. Throwing up some factual articles to lure in new victims to feed off of is such old news. There are lots of sites like that. The E-meter spooks are hiding in the background on sott…BOO LOL!!

    • Ancient heart,
      I know where you’re coming from. There is something “off” about Laura but she also has some good information on that site. Like they say, just because she’s paranoid doesn’t mean there isn’t someone out to get her! :p

      I guess it’s pretty easy for me to discern the good from the bad on that site. My radar is tuned into the emotional so that I know when I’m being manipulated vs. when I’m reading real information. I’m so tuned into the way spaths present information, that I sense it immediately. It’s not a problem for me at all.

      Many blogs about psychopaths are run by people who are a little “off” and there are others run or contributed to by those who are raging cluster b’s. One, which shall remain nameless, seems to have a lot of great articles. It’s only after reading it thoroughly that you realize there is nothing original there. Oh well.

      My point was about wheat and the scientific evidence about it. That site has many contributors, some good, many ridiculous. I think that particular article’s author was credible.

      • I think the article was credible too, it’s just a shame there are so many fruitcakes complaining about fruitcakes when you peel the layers back LOL. The endless saga of the pot meeting the kettle aka scapegoat is so old.

        I’ve been exploring Taoist philosophies for quite awhile, and it seems that gray rocking is very Tao when it comes to dealing with psychopaths. I’ll share here a website I found yesterday which I like:


        What’s of interest to me is the reference to life being a hologram, or movie, and my understanding so far based on Taoist concepts is that psychopaths are trapped in their own hologram. Gray rocking is basically stepping out of their “movie.” There’s more for me to explore about this.

        • A couple of the Taoist concepts (according to this interpretation, anyway) appears psychopathic to me, one of them being the “straw dogs” philosophy. It didn’t sit right with me. I take some, leave some, when it comes to different spiritual philosophies. I won’t go blathering on about Taoist concepts because I think it gets too off-the-topic.

          I purchased a book by Michio Kushi the other day, called The Book Of Macrobiotics, and he described how the universe was formed by the one which became the two, the polarity, and how we are the newest and also the last animal to be created. He made a simple diagram of how all life spirals inward (yin) into creating matter from polarity, beginning with the world of vibration, to pre-atomic particles, to the elements, then plants, then animals. Humans are mammals and are animals, not “gods” as many would love to believe, and are dependent on all older creations which preceded them and without which they couldn’t exist. Then in the diagram he explains that the human, as the last animal created in matter, then begins the yang outward spiral process which he described as decomposition, spiritualization, and melting of personal and individual identities, returning to the source.

          That’s as far as I’ve read into this book, and when I read it I had such a WOW feeling that humbled me like nothing else. I remember seeing a statement by an aboriginal elder that we are here to tell the stories of all that we are a part of: the animals, plants, minerals, elements, everything. It’s a symbiotic experience of empathy and merging, love and gratitude. And we melt back into the source with that. Ooooh!!!

          Psychopaths are apparently terrified of death as well as obsessed with it, and obsessed with materialism. They refuse to flow with the river of creation but are without a choice in the matter LOL, but that doesn’t stop them from doing whatever they can to try and cheat both life and death and to dominate them both. What destructive and insane self-deceit.
          I wonder if psychopaths after they die turn into Earth-bound ghosts. They are like ghosts in life, the way they often attach themselves like parasites to the living and try to suck, haunt, trick, drain and destroy them. They aren’t “in the flow,” that’s for sure!

          • Ancientheart, when you say that Spaths are obsessed with materialism, I don’t think I follow that, at least in relation to Spath x (notice I’m not using MY anymore. Learned that on LF. Forward step!)
            Spath x had nothing to speak of to his name. I’m a total collector of stuff. I’m very sentimental, can’t let go of family heirlooms, I just get off on so much cool stuff. Not for their $$ value but just because its cool or works in my space. I’m always trying to reinvent the mouse trap…..upgrade in someway but not based on $$ value. The problem with me and my stuff is that I upgrade in some way then never get rid of the ” old ” version. I do believe I have a problem with this issue. Not exactly a hoarder…..I’m not sure! I have a very hard time making decisions, what stays, what goes….very confusing.
            Anyhow, he “seemed” very un materialistic. Just about everything he had was worn out and he didn’t seem to care one bit vice never seen the likes of it. I kind of liked that about him in a way but there was something not good about it too that I was never able to really “get” or come to terms with. Something about not really taking care of ANYTHING?
            Any input?

          • Wow Ancient Heart,
            I just looked up straw dogs and found this on wikipedia

            Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines “Heaven and Earth are heartless / treating creatures like straw dogs”.
            Su Ch’e commentary on this verse explains: “Heaven and Earth are not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them.”

            That is DEFINITELY ON TOPIC!!!
            It describes the sacrifical violence that humanity has participated in from the beginning. It’s the scapegoat ritual, except it uses straw effigies of dogs.
            Furthermore, it explains why spaths scapegoat, why they participate in violence against the innocent: because the universe seems unfair, chaotic, and unpredictable to them. In their perception they see that random violence is going to happen, so they try to “direct” it away from themselves and toward someone else. As one spath told me, “we look at the car wrecks because we figure that if it happened to them, it won’t happen to us.”

            In a way, the spaths are right. It’s human nature to scapegoat and during their hysterical cycles they need someone to blame for how badly they feel. Spaths stay one step ahead of the crowds by providing that scapegoat. They start the slander and devalue process, long before the scapegoat is aware that they’re being set up. (I’m sure you’re familiar with THAT!)

            What the clever fools don’t understand is that they are CONTRIBUTING to the cycle. They are actually causing it, not redirecting it. Kindness is passed forward too and can derail that cycle, when practiced toward NORMAL people (it’s wasted on spaths). But kindness requires faith and trust that your kindness will not be turned against you. Spaths can’t trust, because they will turn kindness against us.

            Thanks Ancient Heart, Taoism is peaking my interest.

          • Edited (I got my yin and yang backwards on the post I made yesterday LOL!)

            It should be “He made a simple diagram of how all life spirals inward (YANG) into creating matter from polarity, beginning with the world of vibration, to pre-atomic particles, to the elements, then plants, then animals. Humans are mammals and are animals, not “gods” as many would love to believe, and are dependent on all older creations which preceded them and without which they couldn’t exist. Then in the diagram he explains that the human, as the last animal created in matter, then begins the (YIN) outward spiral process which he described as decomposition, spiritualization, and melting of personal and individual identities, returning to the source….”


  3. Dorothy, the ex you described may appear to have no interest in anything material but since he lives with his mother in her basement, my guess is that he’s acting out his mother’s unconscious projections. And he could have been acting out some of your unconscious projected feelings, such as a need for security/mother/home that you didn’t have growing up.

    No woman will ever wrench that psychopath from his mother; if they think they can succeed they’ll surely regret it.

    Here’s something interesting about hoarding: something that I read from a feng shui perspective is that the ideal conditions for the most chi found in Nature are that “the wind is hindered and the water is hoarded.”

    I think human hoarding/collecting of anything may be based on this natural premise but it manifests in material and literal hoarding, which can get pretty perverted by some. With psychopaths it’s truly perverted in the extreme, and just because it may not be outwardly noticeable doesn’t mean they don’t have poison containers they’re projecting their hoarding addictions into.

    If you have things that belong to the ex, I personally think it’s best to get rid of them. Make a ritual out of it if you want to. It can help cut the cords that strangle LOL. I think it’s cool you have family heirlooms and that you love them. If they give you a good vibe, that is great.

    • Ancientheart, I am in the final throws of getting his belongings gone. I’m just waiting for help, a truck and a friend. I want his stuff gone. I keep coming across things. I guess I’ll burn his cards and notes etc….take his gifts and throw them in the ocean. It’s hard. I do keep thinking something in him might click….Devine intervention. Probably not.

      I believe he lives with his mother because its cheap, as in costs him nothing. She is his host. He rules the roost and acts as if its his house. It is disgusting. What a number she’s done on him. Even when things between us were relatively ok or at least better, there was always her……I felt like the other woman, his whore down the road. OMG it’s truly sick.
      More later!

      • Yep, nothing like incest – and that’s what it is, even if they aren’t copulating. He was cheating on you all along, and you actually got slimed by the both of them. No wonder you’re hurt and so repulsed.

        I have a really really cool poem that I found about 30 years ago and it’s been memorized by my mind and heart ever since:

        You are not alone

        The centuries fight for you

        Eternity is your ally.

        You are in the keeping of

        The One who holds you with love

        That will not let you go.


        • Ancient heart, WOW…that is beautiful. So simple and powerful. It almost gives me chills. I love simple ” full ” things like that poem. Thank you for posting it.

          That’s why I loved that quote I posted a while back. It says it all in one nice neat package. …….

          “The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to such a pass that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love, and in order to occupy and distract himself without love he gives way to passions and coarse pleasures, and sinks to bestiality in his vices, all from continual lying to other men and to himself. ”

          Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

        • Ancientheart……
          ” even if they aren’t copulating”. OMG that is so funny!! Put a smile on my face!! But it also makes me want to vomit.
          He couldn’t wait for me to meet her. It was weird. There is so much to that whole aspect of the situation…..things I can’t quite put into words and into place. Something very disturbing.
          Yes……I want to vomit.
          His mama Spath and I had a disturbing amount in common. Love of plants and gardening, long hair, white shirts, our birthdays were four days apart. Large breasts. I KNOW that he expected me to treat him in the same way his enabling mother did. He expected me to tolerate his immature, irresponsible, childish crap and be thankful for his mere presence in my home and not have to contribute anything but the bare minimum. So symbolic that he lives in her basement, huh?

          • Dorothy,
            He was trying to triangulate you with his mother. He wanted you to try and compete with her.
            For him, you and his mother were interchangeable in that you were both sources of potential supply. His mother was providing him with a place to live and be “king of the Castle” and he wanted you to try and beat that. Could you provide him a bigger, better castle.

            You said he had no material attachments. Neither did mine, exactly. His desire was for OTHERS to provide him with thing. It didn’t matter if he needed those things or not, or if he was able to procure them for himself. The point was that he felt powerful when OTHERS were providing for him. He had no attachment to the things themselves. If you gave him money, he would just go blow it at the casinos.

            This is the motivation for the pity ploy.

            My spath neighbor and my spath brother both said basically the same thing to me. The crazy husband stealing neighbor said, “I don’t like doing things for myself, I like other people to do things for me.” Spath-bro said, “I want to be like a cat, that just lays around doing nothing while other people do everything for me.” And my uber-spath said, “I shouldn’t have to work. I should just get to play and other people should give me money.”

            Actually, they all are living their lives exactly like that.

          • OMG Skylar……I remember very early on his mother telling me that he loves it when people do things for him. It was in reference to some desert I had made for him….
            Oh noooooo! See…..that was a red flag but I thought I was getting a pat on the head!
            Yes….I’m sure he was grooming me to be her successor or hoping for it….but I was too much of a squeekie wheel. I didn’t want to be a mother and certainly not his mother.
            It’s just too sick.

        • Ancient Heart,
          I love that poem. Thank you for gracing 180rule with its beauty.
          I wonder if there is someway I could place it in a prominent place. I’ll work on it.

          • Whoever the angel is who wrote it will be happy you are sharing it, Skylar.

            The poem was found written on a slip of paper inside of a used book, many years ago.

          • Ancient Heart and Dorothy,
            thank you both for the quotes. I’ve created a special place for them on the left side. You inspired me to add a rotating “Inspirations” widget.
            It’s slow, about 25 seconds so there’s time to contemplate the words and images.

            Hope you like it. I’ll be adding more as I get inspired.

  4. Skylar, in response to your post about the straw dogs, I believe psychopaths know and understand exactly what they’re doing, that they are fully aware of their goals to cause or contribute to destruction. They don’t exist in the realm of the living, they exist in the realm of the dead in the extreme and have learned how to mask that while trying to “trade places” with the living.

    There are probably lots of different factors that cause some people to become these living corpses, or ghosts, one of them definitely being infants that have never individuated and so don’t have an “I.” Lots of trust fund babies are psychopaths. The psycho “benefactor” was a trust fund baby. My mother was one too, and she’s still going on with that silver spoon stuck up her ass LOL.

    I saw something interesting which turned my stomach about a month ago: I was looking at psycho “benefactor’s” Fakebook vanity persona page (Fakebook is a riot), and it’s carefully laid out with photos of a young psychopath. Psycho doesn’t attach her husband’s Fakebook page to hide him, but I happen to know his name and found his Fakebook page, and there was a recent photo of Psycho taken from the chest up. Plastic surgeon fuck-ups need to be on milk cartons LOL, the skin on her face was stretched so tight in every direction that if she puckered her lips the skin at the back of her head would rip open. She had no eyebrows, they were painted on. And her neck was a mass of nothing but wrinkles, folds and age spots which in stark contrast to the plastic face made the face appear even more grotesque and out of context.

    What I found curious about this was that my mother has been a plastic surgery addict forever. I disowned her years and years ago but I found she had a nauseous Fakebook page too.

    When the psycho “benefactor” was grooming and operating with the mask while carrying out her scripts and setting me up, I never sensed or felt any resemblance to my mother’s character, nor did I consciously or unconsciously wish to seek out any sort of mother figure. What is uncanny, though, is the resemblance of traits; psychopaths, maybe especially women, have a terror of aging and fight it with everything they have. Meanwhile, they’re obsessed with death, they are utterly morbid, and live in a fantasy world where they never want to grow up or grow old. Psychopaths are like simple cardboard cutouts, aren’t they?

    Something else that came to mind too about psychopaths: they seem to be metaphoricaly still living in a womb and refuse to leave it. Maybe nature’s response to that is to birth them metaphorically out of the anus, to literally “shit them out,” which would easily explain their 180 mode of “living” and their projections, their obsession with suffering, death and morbidity, feces, sexual perversions, etc. etc.

    From the perspective of the normal life process of evolution, I think psychopaths “came out of the wrong hole;” they’re devolving, going in the opposite direction as the rest of us, in the normal evolutionary process described by Michio Kushi.

    • My two cents on scapegoating as being a part of human nature, I do not believe there is anything natural about it. I believe it’s a man-made defense and a product of our ignorance, and that it has nothing to do with God or Nature. Jesus apparently tried to get people to understand that, didn’t he? And then made the scapegoat for daring people to see themselves in their own reflections.

      Do you think Taoist philosophy, maybe for instance their belief that Heaven and Earth treating everything like straw dogs, could have been because their own times in history were difficult? When I read what Lloyd deMause uncovered in his psychohistory articles about ancient cultures, it seems plausible.

      • It is human nature to scapegoat because it is infantile nature. Scapegoating simply means to make someone else responsible. Like a fetus or an infant, the spath continues to want someone else to be responsible. They are emotionally arrested. It is, by the same token, a primitive defense mechanism. AND, very importantly, it is part of the denial mechanism. Girard makes this very clear: Scapegoating doesn’t work if we don’t wholeheartedly believe that the scapegoat deserves to be held responsible.

        As we evolve, either individually or as a race, we should be learning to leave denial and scapegoating behind. I know that I’m trying hard to remove the denial mechanisms I’ve been under for my whole life. Particularly in regard to my parents. It’s not easy. It’s not about what we KNOW, it’s about how we feel.

        I don’t think any Taoist philosophy is necessarily about how things should be, but more about describing how they actually are. They accurately described the scapegoat mechanism as it exists in humanity. They didn’t actually say they approved of it. It’s kind of a “non-judgemental zen thing.” It could even be described as acceptance. Once something is accepted and no longer denied or repressed, it loses its power over us. The power of scapegoating is that we deny when we are doing it.

        • That makes sense to me, that the Taoists were describing a “what is” in that context.

          The child inside each of us is always going to be there and have needs, and growing up is kind of a misnomer LOL for that reason. I know in my own experience that as much as I was aware later in my life of the whys of my parents’ scapegoating and other destructive behavior – knowing their upbringing and such and understanding why they behaved the way they did, whenever I had contact with them the gut-churning, poisonous, slimy feelings would return regardless. The child, like the elephant, never forgets. They were still projecting and scapegoating which was never going to change. I had to be my own protective parent and protect myself from further contact with them. I still love them, but my respect for poison is stronger than my love for them.

    • Ancient Heart,
      It’s frightening, isn’t it, when we realize that we were victimized by the same person over and over, except that they were wearing a different body!!
      Yes, the narcissist has a fear of aging. Remember the story “The Portrait of Dorian Gray”?

      My ex-spath actually said, “I never wanted to grow up.”

      They are perpetual infants, always sucking and sucking and sucking. Envying everything that others have because their infancy doesn’t allow them to form their own characters. The only character they have is that of an envious, needful thing. I believe that their obsession with repulsive, morbid perversions is related to poisoning. As a fetus, they took nutrients from the mother and passed their waste back to her. She accepted their toxic matter because of love and desire to see them become a complete human being. But the spath didn’t want that. He wants to stay a fetus. That means taking what’s good from his supplier and giving back only poison. In my case, my spath, for some reason, acted out these metaphorical devices and truly was obsessed with poisoning my food –among other obsessions, which are too long to list right now!

      • They really do seem like the same person, like you said, just wearing a different body – like a fricking skin.

        I’ve not read the Dorian Gray story. I’ll look it up on the Internet.

        What that psychopath did to you, it can only be described as a demon. That thing was simply not human.

        • It truly is unimaginable. Sooooooo much of it is truly unimaginable.
          Skylar and Ancientheart……..I love reading your posts. A lot of it is over my head but I do get something out of it all.
          I think they love to push the limit, push the boundaries…….ANY ones other than their own. Freaks. Sick twisted freaks.

          • I read about the story, “The Picture of Dorian Gray,” what a exemplary depiction of psychopathy. The author Oscar Wilde could have been a psychopath, since apparently he stated that the characters were aspects of his own character. It’s interesting that he had to edit the story so much and that it was pulled from publication not long after it was published. At least 100 years ago there appeared to have been some genuine attempts to not publish offensive material in the media.

            I’m about halfway through Michio Kushi’s Book of Macrobiotics, and his descriptions of the evolution of forms and species and how they relate to spirituality and the order of the universe fascinates me and makes sense to me. It was written in 1977 but its contents are timeless. There’s a ton of concepts in his book which discuss ways to achieve balance and flow with the natural order of the universe.

            In a nutshell, it seems to me that psychopaths are determined not to be born into life and flow with the natural process of individuation, aging and death. Like you mentioned earlier, Skylar, it’s because psychopaths believe the world to be unfair, chaotic, and unpredictable.

            The universe doesn’t turn and bow to their every need and whim, how dare the universe (womb) be so cold and selfish and force them out into the world and into the natural order of life. Skylar, no wonder they set people up to cheat them in any way they can of happiness, love, life. They’re determined to try and make the outside world and their targeted victims a replica of their rotting fetal state, their inner wasteland. What the psycho “benefactor” did to me, the setup to target me, my animals and business – and she was scripting all along to “trade places” with me.

            I do think psychopaths are literally the living dead. They probably attract all manner of low vibrational icky entities that are earthbound.

            The whole ridiculous premise behind all the masonic secret society “order into chaos” bs, by the way, is nothing but this same infantile sickness. The “war on terror” is their war against the natural order of the universe.

            Another book I really like is Erich Fromm’s “The Anatomy Of Human Destructiveness.” I haven’t it read it cover to cover, but every chapter I’ve read so far hits the bulls-eye every time.

  5. Something I’ve been thinking about today…….I never once remember Spath x initiating a comment or observation about something. Not once do I remember him saying,,, isn’t that tree cool? Or I’ve been wondering about, blah blah blah, or isn’t blah blah blah amazing….

    He would notice nice boats, cars…… Just void.
    I remember one time there were deer in the back yard and he came and got me for me to see and seemed kind of off on the fact that I had these two deer living close to the house. There were lots of things about me or what I did that he seemed to really appreciate. It seemed genuine. It really did. Maybe not. Or could he have been a Spath hybrid? A partial Spath?

    • I was just at the website that Skylar has a link to, http://www.imitatio.org, and reading the article by Mark Anspach about how Jung was smitten with Freud which morphed into his obsessive envy of Freud.

      I think in any relationship which seems to always begin with mirroring and mutual admiration, there’s a risk of one or both parties unconsciously competing with the other for the high chair and the pacifier. The more dysfunctional either or both individuals, the higher the odds, the bigger all the mess and drama.

      Speaking of psychopaths, there’s a family in my general neighborhood with a boy of about 10, a psychopath in the making if there ever was one. Mother coddles him as well as silently promotes, defends and denies his psychopathic acting out but he’s only a spitting image of her own projections. He does nothing but act, and act out, and the kid has zero self-esteem so he’s cruel and destructive.

      Boy Wonder was sneaking around a building today and throwing rocks to break the windows and had smashed two before I busted him, when he then ran to hide behind a tree LOL. The adults were gone somewhere, and the sitter was watching TV when I knocked on the door to tattle on Boy Wonder.

      Up skips the little psychopath with his lines prepared and getting into character, batting his little eyelashes with those wide eyes and saying, “What?? I didn’t do anything.” I stuck my face into his and screamed at him, called him a fucking liar and an asshole, shocking him out of the nice act, then he switched into his next character which is very adult-like and he yells to me that he’s going to call the cops on me. I glared at him like I was a monster going to eat him and called him a little asshole and other choice words just as if he were an adult, mirroring his own hate.

      Then he switched into infantile mode, screaming and crying and hoping that would pay off, but I mimicked him. His last character didn’t pay off either so, out of roles to play, he ran into the house and disappeared. What’s sad is that it isn’t his fault, he’s his mother’s poison container. He’ll be in the court system in a few years, most likely. Or become a politician LOL!

      • Ancient heart, I didn’t notice or understand at the time that even whne there were things about me he seemed to admire, when he would say something to me about them, there was something missing in his expression. Something that didn’t feel right. It’s very hard to describe. I think the closest I could come would be to say that it felt like he was appreciating this aspect of me and minimizing or devaluing it at the same time. It was very subtle.
        Ok….your story about boy wonder kind of made me feel concerned for you.
        Some great visual images though!! Lol
        These spathetes can be even more dangerous in a way because they haven’t learned how to control themselves yet. This little brat sounds like my Spath bro at a young age. And the mother sounds like my Spath mother. I’m just concerned that the little shit might retaliate.

      • Ancientheart. My brain feels so muddled and full of cotton. Everything is just swimming around in a mud puddle. Just a swamp of confusion. I’m thinking I need to take a Spath break. So if my comments are weird, I apologize.
        I’m wondering if this Prozac is not doing me much good. I’m trying to get into see someone about it and its taking forever. I’m kind of tempted to discontinue it because I feel so crappy. I feel so run down and depleted. This is all just too much!! The me part, the Spath part….too much. I feel out of control.

        • I don’t know diddly about prozac or pharmaceuticals, but if it’s making you feel worse instead of better, maybe it’s better not to take it.

          I’ve taken St. John’s Wort capsules on occasion which I found helpful. It’s a natural alternative, maybe that’s something you can try instead to see if it helps you.

          The 10 year old little boy I’m not worried about. I love kids, and I don’t dislike him or fault him. I very rarely cross paths with him or his family.

          Skylar has so many good articles and links on her website, I’ve been visiting more of them and read a couple of articles from the website of Narcissist Victim Syndrome yesterday. The draining sensation is very real, and I think it’s a matter of finding ways that uniquely help you. If you’re inclined toward energy work such as acupuncture, massage, homeopathics, diet, etc., if that’s something you want to explore to help you exorcise the bastard LOL, maybe some natural approaches can help. Getting his stuff out of your space is important, too. Here’s an article from NVS that I read yesterday:


          I think keeping yourself grounded with simple things, like taking your shoes off and going barefoot on the grass, getting fresh air and exercise, really helps. Keeping your cell phone and computer off too, including TV, since they really screw with our body’s natural magnetism and affect our mind and feelings more than we realize. Eating healthier, drinking more water. Simple stuff.

          • Thank you Ancientheart. I’m working on getting his stuff, gifts, cards, etc rounded up and off my property. I hate running across things…..too many reminders. And as far as any of his belongings, I don’t want him to have any reason to contact me period. My friend is back on Monday with a truck so I hope to get that done next week.
            All for now and thank you for the suggestions. I’m going to go without the Prozac for a couple days and see if I level out. D

          • Hi Skylar……I didn’t take my Prozac today and I feel much calmer, at least for now. I’m going to skip it tomorrow as well and see what happens. Like I said, I always eat gluten. That is a constant. So it doesn’t make sense to me that I feel this way sometimes and not other times but eat the same all the time.
            Ill check out the link though and thank you.
            I went out for a drive about today and did a little therapeutic shopping, lol! I’m spending the money I got from returning dick heads Christmas gifts on me, thank you very much!!

  6. Here’s a website I lit upon during a search for psychopathy from the perspective of the chakra and energy system:


    I was thinking to myself about the possibility that psychopaths are busy “working” your front chakras while they’re sneaking up from behind to drain your rear chakras, then it’s “gotcha!” There’s truth to those sayings, “back stabbers,” and “watch your back.” I’m sure there are some good ways to clean, strengthen and protect, i.e., watch our own backs, in an energetic sense. Aromatherapy, oils, visualizations, yoga, etc. There are a number of articles on the energetic cutting of cords, dissolving attachments, some good, some not. Those thoughts came to me after I read the NVS article from the author’s very open-minded perspective on spirituality and alternative approaches to healing.

    I hope you feel better soon, Dorothy, that “cottony” head feeling doesn’t sound comfortable.

    • Ancient heart,
      Those character structures were first described by Alexander Lowen and William Reich. I think they are excellent.
      Here is a website that describes all the different characters, it’s very interesting: http://www.reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Character/Overview/general_character.html
      The psychopathic character structure described my spath to a TEE. His body structure is exactly as described, or at least it was when we met. HUGE head and neck, broad shoulders, slim waist and hips, small feet. Lowen and Reich call the psychopathic structure, “the inspirer”, they don’t use the psychiatric terms we are used to.

      I don’t think I had read the part about the chakras before, so that was new information. I’ll have to spend some time on that site.
      You are keeping me BUSY!!! But I do appreciate the wealth of information you share with us!

      • Skylar, I’m sort of intuiting out loud here and am jumping around a lot, so please excuse that LOL! Thank you for the link to the Reich and Lowen website, I know that’s going to be an awesome one. I read “The Murder Of Christ” by Reich, wow wow wow!! Another man too far ahead of the times. I have Lowen’s book on Bioenergetics but haven’t got to it yet. I’m a reading, absorbing fool these days. I need to tone down my excitement, I think!

        The chakra source could be a helpful perspective for those interested. I had to agree with the commenters on the fullpermissions blog, however, who know from experience that pscychopaths are untreatable.

        Yep, the physical description is another bulls-eye. That alone can be a huge help to spot psychos on a day to day basis in life. It described one of my exes perfectly, and as for the psycho benefactor I’ve only seen a handful of pics of her on the Internet and it fits her too – not only that but how she anonymously posted material on the Internet and the descriptions she gave, really sick and bizarre, and lots of references to spinning heads, and head-related violence.

        Awesome link, thank you Skylar. I love that NVS website too 🙂

        I’ll tone down my posts and linking stuff, I need to take a chill pill LOL! See what you did HA HA, you made me feel better, shame on you LOL!

        • OMG NO, don’t tone down your links, I LOVE your links! I just have to find time to absorb all that information.
          I also like how you are intuiting and making unexpected connections, that’s what I do too. It’s the only way to “organize” the information because it can’t just be memorized, it has to be integrated on a deeper level for it to be of use. After all, we aren’t spaths, if we were, we would just memorize stuff and parrot it back.

          • LOL, speaking of parroting, it looks like the author of the fullpermissions blog may have done a little plagiarizing of the Reich and Lowen material, some of it’s word-for-word. Now I wonder if the other material was “borrowed” too. The chakra info could be legit, just not his. Another banana-stealing monkey LOL!

            I’m still absorbing stuff too, there’s so much, and it comes in waves, it seems. One insight rolls into another, and so on. I’ll say for sure, I haven’t felt better in years, Skylar. You created a garden here with nourishing soil and sunshine, lovingly watered, and carefully tended. You’ve helped me tremendously. Thank you.

          • Ancient Heart,
            you are so welcome. I’m glad you arrived to join our army of spathinators! lol!
            Your links to http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/narcissistic-victim-syndrome-from-a-shamanic-perspective
            were extremely interesting. I clicked on the “About” page and realized that I had been on her site before. Yet I don’t remember her insights being as “insightful” before. It’s because I wasn’t ready. The information does come in waves and we have to be prepared for it.

            You will find that things which didn’t resonate too much with you the first time, become so much more important after other information has been absorbed.
            Have you read this?

            Some of her wording may confuse. Try substituting the words “good shame” with “humility”. Then it makes more sense.

            I’ve found that there is a communication problem that we have to overcome too.

        • Sky, Ancient……Spath x has a large head and the rest except he didn’t have small feet but he was tallish, 6’1/ size 12 feets. That sounds normal..yes? But his head was rather large. Slim hips, he had kind of a large belly, fairly broad shoulders.
          Must read. I’m behind!

          • Dorothy,
            I’m certain that my spath was a pure, primary spath. Lowen and Reich wouldn’t have attributed any other PD’s to him.
            That is why his body conformed precisely to the “inspirer” shape.

            I don’t think that most people will conform to any of these shapes. But he does fit perfectly to the inspirer.

            BTW, it is thought that William Reich was an “inspirer” himself.

            Just goes to show that you can learn more about spaths from spaths. that is, if you survive.

      • Spath was incredibly ” intuitive “. He could read me very well, but what he did with that, where HE took what he read was retardedly off base sometimes. Like it went through his Spath filter and got all bungled up. Lol!

        “The intuitive capacities of the Inspirer are formidable, with very strong abilities to read what is going on inside of other people, although the understanding of the meaning of what is going on is often very distorted. The inspirer is not hampered by the self-absorption of most other pre-oedipal characters, and therefore is able to better pay attention to others in real time. This can contribute to the seductiveness that is often noted.”

        That is from Skylar’ link above.

          • Ancient Heart,
            I disagree, it is spot on.
            The spath I lived with looked like a homeless man.
            Never bathed, horrible teeth, wore rags. I’m not kidding.
            The cars he drove…ugh. First an old truck, then a pinto, then … I’m trying to remember… anyways now he always drives a Geo Metro.

            But as he climbs out of his old trashy cars, he climbs into a helicopter and flies like the devil himself. He has conned millionaires and billionaires and killed some of them. He can inspire you to believe whatever he believes because he is EXACTLY like peter pan.

            Oh yeah, btw, if you want to know ALL about spaths, read the story Peter Pan (You have to BELIEVE, Wendy!! Then you can fly!) and THEN read about the author. OMG, the man was a pedophile and a total spath. Horrific. I personally believe that he killed the parents of the children he adopted, just so he could have the children. ugh. it gives me shivers.

            There was a book written about him recently, (the author of Peter Pan) and some reviews of that. That’s where you need to go for the information.

            THEY ARE ALL ALIKE.

            EDIT: BTW, the book “Peter Pan” was originally titled, “The Boy Who Hated Mothers.” Need I say more? I think not.

    • Do people who have been around a psychopath too long develop the lying habit too? I am asking because i grew up with it . had a friend in psychology that met my dad and said he was sure dad was NPD.I am confused because my mother was also a pathological liar (as is my brother) Is that something one can pick up like a bad habit?Maybe they were all psychopaths? that seems unlikely

      OTOH I wish i could find the article that was talking about how one relatively “normal” person could be born into a nest of psychopaths. That might have been skylar.

      Was looking at the descriptions on Ancient hearts link
      (BTW i think “Hands Of Light” has a character structure chart that is similar. The other thing i am looking at is a body encyclopedia by Lisbeth Archer which is supposed to map the body to psychological function)
      Anyway, in looking at the list of early environmental factors, i have a number of those, but i don’t exhibit the modes of mind or
      psychological functioning with any degree of consistency.( to be honest i read them out loud to my husband because he is fairly objective) I do recognize some of the tendencies crop up occasionally though, so maybe it IS something learned?

      • Dances,
        I don’t think pathological lying is contagious. My spath lied constantly. It was a source of embarrassment to me. He would ask me to lie for him too. I would try, but I’m so bad at it, that I would end up spilling the truth by accident because I’d forget that I was supposed to lie. It got to the point where I stopped socializing because I couldn’t keep the lies straight and it was easier to just avoid his friends. Seriously. That was a huge red flag and I was totally clueless about it.

        But I do know a husband and wife who both lie. One is a narcissist and tells obvious tall tales. I doubt there is anyone who believes those lies. The other spouse lies covertly. I was amazed when I finally realized how much and how WELL this person lies.

  7. Skylar, I hope he will someday be caught. Many psychopaths eventually trip themselves up.

    That news about the reality behind the Peter Pan story and the adopted children is so chilling.

    Dorothy, by the way, as much as I like that NVS syndrome website, with regard to the author discussing shamanism, I’m all for natural and alternative approaches to recovery but there are a ton of land mines when it comes to new age stuff, often posing as ancient techniques, etc. Keeping your feet on the ground, literally, and using the power you inherently possess is your best ally. A grounded person is a lot tougher to deceive.

    • I hear you AncientOne. I haven’t made any phone calls…..YET! Lol
      I didn’t have a name for them yet but I have defiantly seen the Spath potential in the new age arena. I doubt that any arena is a safety zone.

      I feel much more grounded today….less shaky sp? I used to do just fine on Prozac but I was also drinking when I was on it the last time. I’m very curious to maybe get the levels tested that Janov talks about. It would make sense that with alcohol induce brain issues, something could be out of wack up there. Maybe with the menopause the Prozac is affecting my differently than it used to and also the no alcohol factor which always affected me more like a stimulant than a depressant.

      Skylar, I had a huge déjàvu sp thing when I read what you wrote about the Peter Pan story and author. OMG! That is amazing!! I’d love to read more about that.

      Don’t you wonder…..people who are DRIVEN and obsessed with having children….they are probably more desperate for a poison container? Children are perfect because they can’t get away and are dependent on you. And vulnerable.

      Ok, I’m ready…..speaking of tripping themselves up……spaths life circumstances right now are ripe for it. Ill try to be brief but hit all the high points.
      He is in bankruptcy ( on all levels, LOL)
      He is an alcoholic and commonly drinks and drives and with open container.
      He lives with his mother in the basement, of course.
      His mother owns ” his” car which used to belong to his dead father.
      As far as I know, it is in her name and she carries the insurance on it, at least the insurance card I’ve seen has her name on it.
      So……if something were to happen involving another vehicle and he had been drinking or was at fault period, his ass and her ass could be up the proverbial creek in a major major way.
      My understanding is that this arrangement is NOT ok with insurance companies and spaths poopie diapers could make quite mess for her and leave both of them covered in shit. That’s only the tip of the iceberg as there are two other siblings who would freak!!
      And then there is the future care of Mama Spath.
      I will make this clear…..I’m not wanting anyone to get seriously injured…….just whatever it takes to leave Mama Spath holding the diaper bag.
      Right now he thinks he’s got it made and I was just something that was either being used for ” other things” ( I mean..how much time can a man spend with their mother?)
      And the physical……. OR I was being groomed as the next diaper bag holder.

      Anyhow, there are so many directions his life could take a big diaper dump right now, I love it! OR he could “hook up” with someone who is still fertile and impregnate them. I think this is the only way he has managed to keep a woman in his past for longer than a year, max. But doesn’t that come at a cost?

      • His mommy will wipe his ass no matter what happens, Dorothy.

        Have you checked out any co-dependent support groups? Similar to AA type groups, people working on similar issues and supporting one another can be really fulfilling.

        • Not yet AncientHeart. Once I get thought tis phase I think that may be the way to go though. Not sure about meeting type things though, I’m too isolated so it would be good in that respect.

    • Hello Everyone, This is my first comment here. I have read so much on this site, since I found it. I chose my online name be-cause I feel we are soulsister’s. Telling each others stories with slight variations. Words would not express how much this site has informed and helped me. I am a SURVIVOR of over 30 yrs with an intra-species predator. So I understand the struggles that come from an encounter with these beasts. Thanks to all my beautiful sisters, if you were not, he would not have victimized you! Like the pearl analogy you will come through this stronger and shine with the special light of wisdom!

  8. Skylar, yes, the word humility does seem a better fit to me too for the concept of “healthy shame” in that article.

    I’ve yet to read anything about the author of Peter Pan, I don’t have the stomach for it at the moment. Dorothy, thanks for putting up the link, I’ll check it out soon.

  9. I just finished the article Dorothy provided about the Peter Pan author, and that’s as far as I want to venture into that dark being. I concur with you Skylar, that he could well have murdered the boys’ parents. His obsession with them- Michael, in particular – may have contributed to Michael’s suicide. What the reporter intuited seemed to agree with you when he remarked that nearly everyone around Barrie managed to die. The original title of the book is a giveaway, isn’t it? If it walks like a duck….

    • Ancient Heart, that is the article that I had read too. Thank you, Dorothy for posting the link.

      Horrific isn’t it, that they hide right under our noses and nobody would suspect that Peter Pan is written by a spath who is writing about himself. It was a TELL!

      We can learn so much about spaths just by listening to them talk. We just have to be aware that they are spaths and we have to be careful about getting infected/slimed.

      The author of “Political Ponerology” said that to study spaths, we need to practice “psychological hygiene” but I’m still not sure how that’s done.

      The story of Peter Pan has all the elements of a man who wouldn’t grow up and goes around stealing little girls from their bedroom windows. He will use the little girl only until she grows up and then he doesn’t want her anymore. But interestingly, in the sequels, Wendy’s daughter and I think also her granddaughter, go off to have adventures with Peter. Something about the way it was stated, indicated to me that there had been some generational transfer of the slime from Wendy to her offspring and that Barrie was aware of how child molestation “transfers slime” to the entire family.

        • It’s pretty sick alright. It’s interesting though……how many people who are/ were held in such high esteem are/ were actually sickos?
          I know that at least in my parents generation, people were valued and looked up to for their outward appearance and what they DID, not who they ARE,,
          Seems like the truth of a lot of things that have been hidden are coming to light.
          Did you notice Barrie’s spathy head?

          • I didn’t notice anything peculiar about the head or facial features.

            I watched some comedy videos last night to de-slime after I read about Mr. Peter Pan LOL.

        • Sorry you got slimed, Ancient Heart. I just wanted to share the Peter Pan thing because I think there is a goldmine of information there about predators and how to recognize them.

          That article was written before Sandusky’s debacle, so the author didn’t have anything to compare him to. She said that, on the one hand, he was benevolent to children’s orphanages…. ummm, right… we all know about that kind of “benevolence”.

          Then there was the recent disclosure of that British comedian, what’s his name, who had a children’s tv show and was molesting kids every day, until he died.

          They look for ways to attract children and to appear 180° opposite of what they are. sooo disgusting and they’re all the same.

          • I’m glad you shared the truth behind the Peter Pan story, Skylar, and I’d rather know than not know any day of the week. Blinders are a dangerous thing to wear.

            Yes, that purported benevolence seems to be a hallmark mask for psychopaths. I discovered that the hard way when I became involved with the “benevolents” in animal welfare which is infested with psychopaths. Orphaned animals are ideal victims for both “benevolent” donors and “benevolent” facilities to exploit, hoard, torture, and humiliate, and behind the charitable acts in many instances are all manner of other criminal and deviant activities as well, such as pornography, drug trafficking, pedophilia, and money laundering. It’s big business.

            The paedophile you referred to was Jimmy Savile. And the authorities knew all along but conveniently managed to “expose” the truth 20 years after his death, and only because so many victims refused to be silenced. Animals have it much worse, I’m afraid, they have been the most commonly used and societally acceptable scapegoats and sacrificial victims for as long as man has been around.

        • I don’t want to say anything negative, but Disney is complicite with the governments MKUltra mind control program. This is a very dark and shocking truth. I would not advise anyone who is easily affected by evil to research this information. But if you watch Cathy O’Brien’s videos, on Utube and see what she went through and who she is now, you will see an overcomer. Do not let these demons take your soul, it is what they want, most of all. They want to break you, so they can own you, dead or alive. Take your power back, it is us against them, you will stronger for it in the end.

  10. I love the inspirations widget you made, Skylar. I’d like to add another poem if you think it’s appropriate: “Do Good Anyway,” by Mother Theresa

    People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered.
    Forgive them anyway.

    If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
    Be kind anyway.

    If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies.
    Succeed anyway.

    If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you.
    Be honest and frank anyway.

    What you may spend years building, someone may destroy overnight.
    Build anyway.

    If you find serenity and happiness, people may be jealous.
    Be happy anyway.

    The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow.
    Do good anyway.

    Give the best you have, and it may never be enough.
    Do your best anyway.

    You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God.
    It was never between you and them anyway.

    by Mother Theresa

    • Ancient Heart,
      my reply went off into cyberspace.
      I’ll try again.
      Thank you so much for that beautiful inspiration.
      I put it into the column.

      It’s perfect.

      • That poem has been very close to my heart. If it’s too long to fit in the widget space, I’m happy to share it here just the same. Thank you, Skylar. xxxxoooo coming back to you 🙂

        • It took some tweaking but I made it fit.
          When we study a dark subject like human evil, we need to balance it out with some hope and positive thoughts! I think that’s part of psychological hygiene.

          • That’s about as close to a sensible description as it gets and probably what the author of Political Ponerology meant by “psychological hygiene.” Absolutely. One way I like to balance the light and dark is to watch Robin Williams videos, or comedies.

            The psychopath that targeted me beginning in 2007 has no sense of humor. I didn’t notice it for quite awhile. When someone only communicates by email, it’s so easy for them to hide and distort just about everything.

            I always have watched my animals’ responses to people because they’re often far better judges of people, and excellent teachers in that respect too. The psychopath was nowhere near us, just a spook “from afar” on the Internet. Had she ever visited in person – which she had no intention of ever doing – I’m certain the hairs on my neck would have stood up.

            Psychopath #2 I did meet in person, and he was a very convincing act, but the animals he was alleging to be a devoted caretaker for gave him away within hours of meeting him. He knew immediately I was onto him. They have a sixth sense when their act isn’t working, so his acts of covert agression were quick to manifest: I witnessed untold nightmares of animal cruelty; he poisoned a horse and then claimed it became mysteriously ill, denied the animal any care and then forced me to watch him shoot it and attempt to bury the horse alive. The only thing that forced him to shoot the horse and end its life was my screaming at the top of my lungs to alert neighbors so they would hopefully contact the police. That was the only reason he changed his mind to try to bury the horse alive in front of me. He pulled the gaslighting, crazy making behavior, and projecting relentlessly. He tampered with my vehicles on two occasions to try to arrange an “accident,” and he stole all of my property, used the cops to trespass me and then claimed I donated all of my property him. The police protect him and treat him as the victim, naturally. Another woman was victimized the exact same way; she sued him but had lost most everything because he had already killed, sold or destroyed most of her property by the time it got to court.

            He is a homosexual and paedophile, and there are indications he engages in acts of bestiality. He has an army of cover in the form of political connections and his nonprofit has been a money mule for laundering.

            Psychopath 1 and 2 have been teamed up for quite awhile. And as you said, they are all the same. They truly are.

          • Ancient Heart,
            what a horrific trauma to endure. If I wasn’t familiar with spaths, it would be too much to believe, but I DO know how they operate. Their intent is to traumatize, to terrorize. I’m so sorry that you and your animals had to experience that. Of course they work in teams, they are cowards. That’s why it’s so important not to go up against one unless you have a bigger, badder, team of your own.

            It’s a revelation when we figure out that they don’t understand humor, isn’t it? My ex-spath would frequently say, “I just don’t understand the comic strips. They don’t make me laugh.” Well of course not, nobody is dying in them.

            The trojan horse spath could not figure out that “The Colbert Report” wasn’t really about a right-wing nut, but actually a parody of Bill O’Reilly. Trojan Horse LOVED Stephen Colbert until I explained it to him. Then he no longer watched it. ROTFLMAO. Spaths are comic relief in themselves, if you look at it from the right perspective. But it’s not always easy, because of the murder and mayhem they cause.

          • OMG Ancientheart……:shock:
            What a horrendous story. Again, as always, I’m like…WTF?
            It’s just insanely depressing and disturbing that people can be this way. I’m sorry you have been through that type of horror.

          • This was from a review on Amazon of one of Donnas books……
            “The darkness comes from their own soul. It is a soul already interracting
            with realms inhabited by demons.”
            I should probably reference the passage but I’m not sure how.

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