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Scandal Must Come — 211 Comments

  1. Dear Dare2B, Welcome to 180…glad you found this site. May I ask who recommended the sites to you so that we can thank them.

    There are many many great articles here and you will find help, support and kindness here to help you educate yourself about what you have experienced. I think we start to find out about what “they” are and then we start finding out about ourselves and why we stayed as long as we did, and then the healing begins.

    Again, welcome to 180 and FA.

    • I only know her as soulful survivor. Her posts about her ex struck a cord with me. I haven’t been able to speak to anyone about my ex – only my daughter. I filed in aug 2012 and have been keeping my problems to myself. I couldn’t trust some family members that I barely speak to. I won’t even give them my address.

      The information I have been reading is just unreal. I can’t believe it. So many similarities. I thought I was alone.

      Thank you for the welcomes. ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. Dare2B, welcome to 180rule, and congratulations on getting out, alive.

    Yes, it is all scary and that fear can really generate some anger. How could I have NOT known what the exspath was doing? I cannot recount how many times I asked myself that question. Well, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Whether the exspath was “that good” at his game, or whether I had blinders on the whole time doesn’t matter.

    Read, post, vent, and be kind to yourself whenever you feel that urge to blame yourself.

    Again, welcome, and blessings to you on your journey to light and love.

    • Thank you Truthspeak. You’re right, what good does it do to go over and over the why? I did know he was crap. I have been secretly plotting my get away for years. I was lucky I could busy myself with our kids and our house and all that. Of course it wasn’t enough for him — he was always yelling and screaming for me to “get a job.” Repairs to the home were NEVER done. New cars, vacations, hobbies were just nonexistent. Nothing. And he acted surprised when he found I filed for divorce. What a shmuck.

      A shmuck that had us living paycheck to paycheck – while he had alot of money socked away just for him. I hope he enjoys it. When I left the house the roof was leaking, the garage door was broken – just a total mess. Our vehicles are well over 10 years old and needing work and he had all that money. That is all he cared about. Living a miserable life and paying homage to his bank accounts.

      Goody for him.

      I am so done. Can’t look back. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Dared2Be,
        Are you sure you weren’t living with my ex-spath too? You just described my life. He was always crying poverty, borrowing from everyone. As it turned out he had a gambling addiction… among other things. ๐Ÿ™„

        • Skylar and Truth:

          I wouldn’t be surprised – always wondered if he had another family. He even told me when we dated that he was divorced and had a daughter. Months later when I asked him about his daughter, he said straight faced: “I don’t have a daughter. I lied.” That was probably the only time he ever came clean and was honest about anything.

          He is a hoarder as well. Has a home purchased in 1981–gutted–requiring extensive work to complete. Claims that it is my fault it isn’t done. I wouldn’t continue going to the ruin to pull old 100+ year old nails out of the 100 year old lathe from the plaster walls I am certain were coated with LEADED paint. I quit doing that due to dragging our infant along and dumping her on mil next door. The rowhouses shared a common wall. I just felt it was useless. He needed a crew of six men to finish the two story historic thing. It is STILL empty. Has been all along. Filled to the ceiling with junk he found. So is the garage. Parts of his mother’s basement, and HER garage – she doesn’t drive so there is ample room.

          He hoards money. Has an elaborate funeral planned. Huge marble/granite mausoleum. The works. Big lavish dinner. It is so sick. He wouldn’t help his stepson or his own daughter with college. It’s all control. He is in need of help.

        • Dared and Truthy,
          Of the spaths I’ve known, some of them hoard money, others spend it like it was the end of days. What they all have in common is that they don’t like to use their money on other people. They want other people to pay for them. Then they can either hoard their money or spend it on the most extravagant or disgusting expenditures. Giving only happens when they expect a bigger pay off in return.

          Speaking of planning funerals, I mentioned that my spath brother-in-law loves funerals. He also has something to say about his own death. He says he want’s to die broke and in debt because he doesn’t want to leave anyone with anything he worked for. That’s how selfish he is. Even in death, he can’t bear to know that he paid for someone else’s benefit.

          The ex-spath took it to extremes when his mother died. She and her husband were broke so the brothers all chipped in to help pay for the funeral. Spath refused. He wouldn’t even attend because he didn’t want to help pay. That’s what I heard on the grapevine anyway. Looking back, I can see his point though. The step-father is a spath too and he never had any intention of paying for anything either. He drove them into poverty JUST SO SOMEONE ELSE WOULD PICK UP THE TAB.

          Well, Spath would be very sensitive to this kind of passive-aggressive behavior, he’d smell it in the air and he’d never allow it. Plus he hated his mother, so…this was a good excuse.

  3. Guys the research coming out of the study of the human genome and the human brain now that we have some tools to study this system of the body shows CLEARLY that the brains of a psychopath and a “typical” person able to feel empathy and have compassion are DIFFERENT. Now the WHY is still up in the air, they pretty well are sure that genetics have a big part to play, i.e. a psychopath begets some psychopathic offspring even if they, like the cow bird and other species do not raise that offspring to give it the “benefit” of their lack of nurturing.

    BUT what along with genetics CAUSES the brain to develop differently. Why do some people who have these genes NOT become psychopath and have normal brains, yet like I did, pass that genetic material on to my offspring, skipping a generation? Out of the 4 children of my biological father only one is like him, and that child was raised by him. Our of my uncles and aunts on that side, only one of the two offspring of my grandmother became a psychopath and the other was a wonderful caring lady…but there is some “secret” about her only child, a boy 2 yrs younger than me…they have been “estranged” since he was 15 or 17, and he went to live with my bio father and stayed working with him for several years. What’s the secret? I don’t know, all I know is that she died recently and her administrator was only able to track down her son in Arizona. I have found several people in AZ by that name on the net (and it is an unusual name) but not able to make contact with any of them. I’m just curious about what the deal is…is cousin a psychopath too? His maternal grandmother and maternal great-grandfather were apparently psychopaths or very high in the traits.

    The genetics of psychopathy is very interesting to me since I have so many of them in my ancestory and iin my son.

    In the studies done of identical twins (who though their DNA is identical, of course their enviornments even in the womb are NOT identical) raised apart by different families, only 80% of them will both be psychopaths. But we are also finding out that the baby is NOT a blank slate at birth.

    At the time of patrick’s birth and afterwards, I nursed him, and his nursing behavior was very odd. I noted it at the time, instead of snuggling up to my body, like a little comma with his face at the breast, he bent BACKWARDS and I actually had to lay his body along the arm of the chair with just his face pressed into my breast. He was a colicky baby as well until about 5 or 6 weeks and cried a lot, but lots of babies do that, but the nursing posturing was definitely odd enough for me to take note. Unlike any baby that I have ever seen nurse and I’ve taught mom’s how to get their babies to nurse since then, but at the time I was not medically trained but did think it odd since my older son had not does that.

    The brains of psychopaths are smaller in the areas of the brain that code for empathy and emotional IQ, but it doesn’t seem to make them any dumber, and their IQs are along the lines of the “typical” people’s bell curve, no smarter on average and no dumber than the rest of us. If they ARE smart though, some of them become hugely successful as dictators, politicians, military men, judges, etc. we’ve had several in the whihte house that I would say are definitely full on Ps. Not to mention any names, but most of them I think with a few exceptions early in the history of our country, were not full on psychopaths. Many were idolized at the time they were in the white house and the truth about them has not come out for 50 or 150 years.

  4. Oxy,
    that is really interesting about your son’s nursing position. As an infant, did he not cuddle when he was NOT nursing? For example when you were comforting him?

    My spath brother and spath sister, were both rotten as children. I just never noticed it. It seemed normal especially since my parents rather encouraged their selfishness. My mother has mentioned that they were both particularly charming babies, always smiling at strangers. She also said that when spath sister was nursing, she would try to bite through her breast. She had to give up breast feeding when the baby teeth started coming in.

  5. Patrick was odd as a small child and as a toddler…first off he had to have surgery at age 5 months and in those days they didn’t let you stay with your babies in the hospital..so he was there 11 days and when he came home, he quit trying to sit up or crawl, then at 11 months he sat us, stood up and walked all in about a week. He was also frightened of people in white and you could not set him on a table, like to take a photo without him being upset..so he had some memories of pain (they didnt’ give kids much pain meds either back then) and he didn’t talk much in ENGLISH, though he and my older son had a “twin” language and the older kid would interpret for him…they were very close..then one day after not saying more than mama and da.da, my mom sat him at the counter in a bar stool and gve him 3 cookies, and he said “one, two, three” and she gave him some more and he counted to 20 only missing ONE number…we didn’t even know he could TALK much less count, he also knew his ABCs…apparently from Seamee street and the older kid he had absorbed all this unnoticed, He was a “good” baby…and from then on SHOWN and blossomed. We lived in the boondocks so I would send the two of them to a day care so they could socialize with other kids and at that point he just blossomed and was an absolute joy in all ways and his brother who was mega ADHD was a hand full…didn’t see anything much until he stole that check and cash for the radio when he was 11 and then denied and denied.

    Those were the first indications I had that he did not like to be “controlled” or confronted about his bad behaviors. There were other minior things that he showed but really it is difficult to say if it was “normal” or abnormal, after all NO kid is a perfect kid but he was really a good one til puberty and then he was a monster of denial, lies, and definance.

    • Oxy,
      here is an interesting article on Asperger’s Syndrome.
      http://www.pathfindersforautism.org/articles/view/asperger-syndrome-grows-up–recognizing-adults-in-todays-challenging-world
      It describes some lesser understood aspects of AS. Some of these aspects remind me of your description of Patrick.

      For example, the sudden ability to talk in long sentences.

      Although the DSM criteria call for “normal” speech development, in the preschool years an AS child may hesitate talking well beyond the age at which their peers speak (delayed speech). From few words, an AS child may suddenly speak in full sentences” rather than going through some of the trial and error steps shown by other children. This development may startle observers. There is a simplistic but surprisingly accurate explanation: AS children are acutely observant of details and may rehearse things in their heads long before they express their thoughts in speech. Even at a very young age when a child is asked why he hasn’t spoken before, he may say something as disarmingly simple as, “I didn’t need to say anything before.” Such a response may already reflect the child’s undisclosed fear of making mistakes or not being perfect “the first time around”.

      Also, you mentioned his “model behavior”

      The AS child may remain with a “mature” and serious demeanor in the midst of other children’s quickly changing moods. Such “model conduct” is especially true for AS girls whose general temperament may move them to being passive. What the AS child may be doing is observing or studying the other children, trying to “get it right” before making a first step to participate with others. At this very early age, they have learned not to be risk-takers, and other children sense that about them. They are “no fun”.

      The article also addresses how AS people have to work very hard to understand the nuances of lying. You had mentioned that Patrick built a working lie detector as a science project in junior high. This fits the pattern.

      It also discusses the AS child who learns to lie very well. Once they figure out how to do it, and they realize that everyone else is doing it, I imagine it just becomes a game for them. In this way, they can justify lying –because it’s just a game and they have to try to win.

      It’s a really interesting article.

      • Sky while on first glance these might apply to Patrick, he actually was learning to “talk”– just in the “twin” language that he and my older son had…and really he is VERY social and was very popular with teachers and other kids at school, and doesn’t show any real signs of AS…he didn’t need to talk, my older son talked FOR him. LOL It was really quite funny to watch them….Patrick would “mumble” something and point to Andrew and then Andrew would say “the baby wants X” and that would be correct. Andrew “owned” Patrick for the first couple of years, it was HIS BABY. they were only 17 months apart and both extremely bright even though Andrew was very ADHD he walked and talked early, learned his numbers by 2 1/2 and could read at 3….I was a stay at home mom and I read to them and seseme street was the only TV I let them watch and I would watch with them.

        It was odd too the time I took Patrick to the hospital and left him the entire 11 days Andrew was in o ne temper tantrum after another but I was too distracted by the baby being in the hospital to really pay a lot of attention, but the day that I brought Patrick back, Andrew grasped his little hands, rubbed them on his face and smiled and end of tantrums. I think he thought I had “done away with” his brother, I didn’t really even think that I should tell a 23 month old that I was taking the baby to the hospital and he would be back in a few days. Just never dawned on me, but it did teach me a lesson to EXPLAIN things to them from then on. Whether or not I thought they could really comprehend them or not.

        All of the AS people I have been around, even ones who were very mild are not at all like Patrick’s outgoing and charming personality and so pro social. But he like many psychopaths doesn’t “Get it” that not everyone thinks murder is okay, or being a theif or taking a gun to school. But I think that is the ARROGANCE in his thinking. Also I actually think that he thinks that other people think like he does, sort of the “do unto others before they do unto you” sort of mentality. LOL

  6. Oh, I might add too that after reading Dr. Baron-Cohen’s book on empathy or lack of it in autistic spectrum patients AND in psychopaths, it is all ion a bell curve, some more and some less. I am going to guess that there is some of the same genes involved, we already know that left handedness goes with psychopathy, and so does Bi-polar as well as ADHD, so I can see expressions of all these in my family. I think my “Uncle Monster” who was the violent alcoholic was also bi-polar and I am thinking that possibly Andrew is as well, though Andrew is not a psychopath per se, if anyone of my family is AS I think it is Andrew, his social skills are very poor, though he can be quite charming short term when people meet him but he is uncomfortable, I always attributed it to his delayed growth and delayed puberty (he didn’t do puberty til he was 21, and could get in the movie half price til 18, which means he looked younger than 12.) and he was very embarrassed that Patrick had a full beard by 14 or 15 and looked mature.

    There’s still a lot we need to learn about AS and PPD and a lot of other things about genetics and the brain. Wish I could come back in 100 eyars and see what they’ve learned.

    • OxD, although the research on personality disorders is, indeed, fascinating, I don’t think that 100 years will present a “cure” for psychopathy or sociopathy, nor will there be any discoveries or “Things” that will insert empathy, conscience, and a sense of remorse into a human being that doesn’t have those things, initially. This is just my broad and unschooled opinion, but it’s based upon what I’ve noticed in history, as well as present-day behaviors. And, this view actually cracks me up, because I can create a visual of a bunch of people in lab coats in a stainless steel laboratory scratching their heads and saying, “Well, that’ didn’t work, EITHER.” LMAO!!

      There have always, always been human beings who were, for all intents and purposes, devoid of the three qualities of humanity. Some developed into full-blown psychpaths that exterminated others to their own ends. Some of them were ousted from their groups, tribes, or nations and their rampages were ended. Still others learned to mimic human empathy, remorse, and conscience, and integrated into their societies. But, as a whole, “bad” people have always been one of the facets of “The Human Condition.” I sort of “get that,” but I sure as hayell don’t “like” it!

      My feeling is that the only way to thwart these predators is on a personal level – cut them out, just as you suggested, as if they were a cancer. Just cut them out, or not even allow them IN. But, they DO get in because they target the vulnerable and empathetic and use their values and qualities as weapons, rather than appreciating them as parts of another human being.

      And, since most human beings are taught to tolerate and ignore the behaviors of “bad” people (or, that they simply don’t exist, except behind prison walls), it’s a tremendous challenge to call a spade what it is!

      It’s very interesting that the majority of those who survive these predators are typically either approaching or well into their middle-ages. It just may be that, at that point, they’re ready to accept the fact that there are “bad” people out there, and they’ve been harmed enough to begin searching for answers. I dunno.

      I believe that, under the “right” circumstances, a child who is apparently without empathy can learn how to respond with something similar to empathy, though the depth of emotion might be lacking. But, as with most things, the majority of children born without empathy are raised BY people (or, surrounded by extended family) that are probably lacking in empathy, themselves.

      It’s crazy shiat, to be sure, and most of it is beyond my ability to comprehend. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Truthy, I’m with you, I doubt that there will be a “cure” any time soon. LOL But I do think that with continued study there might be a way that at least in the more developed countries, that these children could be tested at birth and special attention paid to them to socialize them.

        Just as James Fallon, PhD the neuroscientist who studied psychopath’s brains found out when he scanned his own brain that HE IS A PSYCHOPATH not just a “jerk” and finally admitted even to himself, his family and his coworkers that he is indeed “psychopathic” but he does down play the problems and calls himserlf “psychopath lite” LOL The difference b etween him and my son Patrick though, is that James hasn’t killed anyone, though he does admit to criminal behavior “as pranks” as a kid, like stealing cars for joy rides.

        So there are degrees of psychopathy some more pro-social than others, just as there are different IQs along a bell curve with a few very very smart and a few very very retarded, but most of us somewhere in the middle, so too Dr. Baron-Cohen makes a bell curve of empathy in his research and while people on the AS scale have more or less empathy, some very severe ones, NO empathy at all, so too does the Psychopath lack empathy, except Dr. Baron-Cohen talks about how while the autistic spectrum person may lack empathy, they do not have the DUPING DELIGHT of a psychopath who lacks empathy who enjoys hurting others.

        If there is anything that might be done, I think it would maybe be “gene therapy” either before birth or shortly after, There are several other co-morbid conditions that go along with the same set of genes (it isn’t just ONE gene) bi-polar is one thing, ADHD is another, and they are more likely than the general population to be left handed which we know is caused by the brain being a bit different in lefties than in right in terms of which hemisphere is dominant.

        It isn’t likely that we will ever find a “cure” or a preventive for it though, there are just too darned many of them to start with. But they have devised an OBJECTIVE scan test for ADHD instead of just looking at a kid and saying “he’s ADHD,” when in fact, he just needs someone to sit him down. LOL . so hopefully that will stop such a high rate of diagnosis of ADHD in our kids and drugging them. But of course not ALL ADHD kids are psychopaths, and not all psychopaths are ADHD or bi-polar so there’s a mix, and it’s all very interesting to me. The book “Anatomy of Violence” which I read recently looks at all the possible causes in research from the mother’s drinking or smoking, to stress in the mother before the child is born, and 1,000 other things that can influence environment. The thing might be though, that if the things that contribute to psychopathy in the environment could be found out, maybe parents could change some of those things….even society is changing in some good ways, cigarette smoking is down etc. though drug use is up. LOL Well, anyway, it’s all interesting to me, but if I had known then what I know now, I would never have had children of my own. My own DNA is laced with it.

        • OxD, had I been born in the 1980’s, it is quite likely that I would have been diagnosed as ADHD. I was busy, talkative, impulsive, easily distracted, and I had a number of other behavioral issues that constantly resulted in being reprimanded. I would also most definitely have been medicated, as well.

          But, I taught myself how to focus, and began to stop and think before I did stupid things. That’s not to say that I still didn’t do stupid or risky things, by ANY means. But, I was able to “get it” about thinking before acting.

          And, my high school art teacher was probably the most influential person for me, during my school years. She was able to channel my energies into a creative expression, and often told me that I had been “born an artist.”

          Some of the most innovative and creative thinkers present ADHD/ADD symptoms. I think (and, I am NO professional on this) that those people experienced support, encouragement, and sound values within their childhoods. There’s a universe of difference between the incarcerated person diagnosed ADHD, and Albert Einstein. Good ‘Ole Al was so easily distracted that he often went to the patent office in his pajamas! LMAO!!! BUT, what he was able to do that most ADHD/ADD people aren’t was to find a healthy focus. Most of the ADHD/ADD children are treated as if they intend to be irritating, impulsive, and contrary in THIS day and age. When these kids present, they’re medicated as a means of managing so that the parents can shop on Amazon or watch “Mob Wives.” It’s different, today.

          And, then……..there are the ADHD/ADD adults that will never connect the behaviors-and-consequences dots and excuse their criminal or harmful intentions ON their diagnosis.

          OxD, I would like to think that I would not have produced children if I had understood these things, myself. With my own genetic material added to Victor’s, our offspring were rather doomed at conception. Of course, I don’t know anything about my biological family, but my own ADHD symptoms and behaviors are enough to suggest that it must have run rampant in my biological family, right? LOL Oy-vey……..

      • Quoting Truthspeak: Itโ€™s very interesting that the majority of those who survive these predators are typically either approaching or well into their middle-ages. It just may be that, at that point, theyโ€™re ready to accept the fact that there are โ€œbadโ€ people out there, and theyโ€™ve been harmed enough to begin searching for answers. I dunno.

        I think this is due to their uncanny ability to fool their victims into believing that there is something wrong with them. After love bombing, in the initial stages of the relationship, they quickly go into devaluing, dehumanizing and “Switch skins” to convinced their victims that it is “them” that needs to be fixed! ( only a trusting person that is willing to consider that the faults she is accused of, could indeed be the problem, would be willing to accept this proposal ) The Psychopaths whole facade is based on keeping their victim convinced that they are the flawed one. Once that nut has been cracked then their whole theory, and their power comes crashing down.
        I spent 30 years in this spin cycle before I realized that it wasn’t me..
        Its all based on a lie.

        • Frontlinegirl, the only thing that I “know” for certain with regard to my own experiences with spaths is that I was easy. I was an easy target because of my own personal issues that had never been resolved.

          I was raised in the dysfunction of alcoholism, and that dysfunction created myriad behavioral issues, flawed beliefs, and the like – regardless of what the dysfunction is, it carries all of the behaviors and traits of disorder that can be identified. Keeping secretes, lying, denial, cognitive dissonance, UN-healthy “Self-isms,” and warped spiritual doctrines (dogma) that are literally manipulated to cow down all of those who are in the roles of “Victim.” My untrained, unlicensed, and uneducated belief is that these issues must be sorted out either in counseling, group support, etc., or those who have been raised in dysfunction will either develop and remain “Perfect Victim Targets,’ or develop into perpetrators, themselves. I’ve never yet met someone from a dysfunctional family environment that “turned out okay.” Sure, many, many went on to college, got degrees, had “successful” careers, but their familial and casual relationships were a mess.

          So………..you are spot-on. Recognizing the lie is the first step in the recovery process. And, I also spent 30 years in “bad” relationships. The first one was an abusive sociopath. The second was a very clever sociopath, and the time that I spent with both total about 30 years, as well.

          One of the hurdles that I’ve jumped over was forgiving myself for spending 30 years with very bad partners. I had to stop using the language using the term, “wasted.” The time that I spent with those people were traumatic, to be sure, but it isn’t “wasted” as long as I”m in recovery and healing.

          ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Ive had plenty of time to think long and hard about the whys of where I am,- and how I got here, so I get it.. When I met my spath,- I was young and my self esteem was down, I trusted in the “good intentions” of people that liked me, I was not sure of my abilities, and of course the need to be affirmed, validated, and appreciated. All perfect soil for a hungry spath to hone in on.
            I was the perfect victim.
            And he did have his 30 year run with me. But now I am the toy that doesn’t squeak, shine or engage, and that is the fruit of his own undoing.
            He likes to find fault in me so knowing that I believe in God, he tries to make me out to be an extremist in my beliefs. But alas those are lies too
            ( I was the only one that shopped for Christmas presents last year for the kids. )
            I will not blame myself on this one, or try to find fault in myself other than I believed that my husband could be trusted with my heart and mind. ( Thank God not my soul)

            One day I was musing over Gods word and I saw some verses that perplexed me..
            It said “I am for you, I am not against you. So what so ever you do, give it all of your might and strength, and I ( the Lord) will bless it.”
            Wow I thought,.. I have God on one hand that is FOR ME, according to his Word, and then Ive got my husband on the other hand who is my enemy sabotaging me in the bushes, They both have opposite views of me.How can this be?
            Who should I believe?! The answer did not take long.. The Word also declares, “Let ever man be found a lair,- but let God be true.”
            That was the beginning of me being set free . I chose to believe God, which meant my husband was the liar.

  7. Truthy, I also am somewhat ADHD and always have been, not to the extent that my son andrew is, but I refused to medicate him and worked with him otherwise. He did at least become self supporting and finish his college degree. It is also very difficult with some people to determine if they are ADHD and/or bi-polar and of course there are RANGES of these disorders from not too bad to horrible…and both are frequently found with personality disorders as well…a crazy mix of DNA and environment.

    I read a biography of Hitler a while back that was actually quite good and while there is no doubt in my mind that he was a psychopath, I think he was also ADHD and maybe bi-polar with a high mania, of course it is difficult to “diagnose” someone you’ve never met from the writings of someone else who never met them LOL but by looking at PATTERNS of behavior even over the decades you can get a feel for what may have been a diagnosis.

    Brains scans are still quite expensive and with the majority of the world not having enough to eat, it isn’t likely that each child will be scanned at birth (or before) and then some magic gene therapy given to them to prevent the development of psychopathic tendencies. It is pretty well known among researchers though that the scans can ‘see” the brain anatomy clearly enough that a diagnosis of the tendencies for psychopathy can show up.

    The big legal question now is, if they have this “disorder” are they responsible for their actions? Sort of like a person with an extremely low IQ is not responsible for their behavior. But, not all psychopaths are criminals, jerks maybe but not law breakers, and many of them ARE quite successful in some careers while their personal lives may be chaos, you can’t lock someone up because of what they MIGHT be thinking—we aren’t to “1984” quite yet, though it seems to be getting closer.

    Look at North Korea right now with the mega-narcissistic psychopathic monster at the helm now…and he isn’t the only person like that in power in a country or a state, or a town, or a home. Throughout history psychopaths have been responsible for 99.99999% of the misery in the entire world…without them there would be no child abuse, no crime, no rape, no wars, no murder, no torture…the tornadoes, earthquakes and floods would be a snap if it weren’t for the psychopaths. But then it would be HEAVEN ON EARTH wouldn’t it? LOL

    • Oxy, absolutely people who are ADHD/ADD “know” the difference between right and wrong. Heck, I knew that some of the things that I was doing were 100% wrong, and I did them, anyway. Sometimes, I was mean, sometimes I lied, etc. But, I learned that my actions not only impacted myself, but others, as well. So, I began paying attention to that – if someone was going to be hurt by my actions.

      You mention North Korea, and there are countless other nations and cultures that were ruled by the disordered. There is a phenomenal movie titled, “Apocalypto,” that addresses just that in pre-Columbian terms. It is a VERY brutal movie, and I had a difficult time watching it, but it rang “true” to what likely happened.

      Without the disordered, it would be quite likely that we would, indeed, live a Heaven on Earth. Perhaps, we wouldn’t be damaging the planet and preparing to extinct ourselves, already! ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Is that Mel Gibson’s movie you mean? The Mayans did human sacrifice. They warred and sacrificed POW, or sacrificed virgins to the rain god by pushing them into a cenote, or lock them up in underground caves, but never at the scale like the Aztecs later on. It was rather rare. And they also did self-bloodlettings and so on. But that movie was a fantasy story. It annoyed the heck out of me, because I know lots about the Mayans as I’ve been a guiding tourleader there for several years.

        • Jill, yes it is, and I found it terrifying that any society can be THAT messed up. I don’t know if it was Incan or Mayan based, but I found it interesting only in that it’s a story that is aeons old about how depraved, distorted, and dysfunctional whole societies have been, throughout history.

          And, the most insane thing about it is that, regardless of what historical events were true, and which ones weren’t, we (as a species) continue to do the same thing, over and over, again.

          There are several movies that are fictional that have skeeved me out enough to create a lasting impression. “We Need To Talk About Kevin” was one of them – holy mackerel.

          • Jill, I agree with you. Today it seems politically correct to say (and maybe believe) that ALL “religious” and all “Cultures” are acceptable, but COMMON SENSE should tell us that is not the case. Some cultures and some societies are so violent in their very nature that in my opinion they are totally psychopathic. That’s not to say that even the “better” cultures don’t have their flaws of greed and other problems, but we can look at Iran and Iraq and North Korea and Sudan and many of the African nations and see MAN’S INHUMANITY TO MAN actively going on today.

            That christian woman in Sudan who was put in prison (her BROTHER betrayed her to the authorities because he wanted her business) for “converting” to Christianity (in fact, she had been RAISED as a Christian, but her biiological father was Muslim, therefore in their belief she was BORN a muslim and her Christian beliefs made her worthy of whipping AND death.

            Even after the world’s attention made the authorties release her, her brother turned her in for “illegally trying to leave the country” and she was ARRESTED again!.

            The Maya and Inca cultures were very blood thirsty, but so was Rome and Greece and many of the “civilized” countries. In our Western History look at how many times our ancestors burned “heretics” at the stake. That book I just finished about the “Lucifer Principle” which shows that all through history (and probably pre-history as well) humans have persecuted, killed, murdered, and abused others for IDEAS….as well as some just out right GREED.

            When psychopaths rule, whether they are Saadam or the ISIS or the Taliban or Hitler, Putin or Staling and Mao or Kim…the country suffers, the people suffer and the psychopaths rain terror on the population. I don’t think it takes a well educated political scientist to see that the world has always been this way, or that it isn’t likely to change for long. Unfortunately like with the ISIS they are not going to EVER live peacefully with those not of their “faith” and they view others “not of their faith” as sub human and it is RIGHT to kill them without mercy. Look at the Nazis, and they are only ONE example of this kind of thinking. Scary, for sure.

            Fortunately, for us, we weren’t born in those countries, so we have the leisure to contemplate self awareness and improvement in our own lives, but some people who were born in these regions don’t have that choice. For them, just basic SURVIVAL is all they can hope for. Golda Meir said and I think it is very telling quote.

            “We can forgive the arabs for killing our children, we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

            She has been dead many years now but her thoughts remain true. The people lobbing rockets at Israel continue and the children still die.

          • OxD, I think that “political correctness” is a waste of energy when approaching how cultures should be perceived. History is never unbiased, and to assume that any culture (particularly ancient cultures) were “good in all things” would be just silly. Hatred, envy, dominance, and genocide has always existed within the Human Condition – anyone or any group that doesn’t conform to the majority becomes shunned, assimilated, or extinct. That’s just how it is, and how it’s always been.

            I don’t pretend to understand this fact, but it’s undeniable and very, very sad. The innocent and powerless are ALWAYS the fodder for the madness, and it’s never going to change until mankind no longer exists. Utopia is an ideal, but it will never be realized because psychopathy cannot be genetically removed from the Human Condition.

            …………just…………eugh

  8. Hey all,

    Sorry that I dropped off the radar for so long. But it was as if my mind needed to hibernate (well fallnate). Not that I was able to sit still, since I’ve been going to university to follow classes and am now again in the middle of studying for exams in January.

    But I do think the fallnate seems to be over. The mind is wanting to express itself again, and making connections and associations again. I wish you all warm, cozy and enjoyable Christmas!

  9. HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!!!
    I hope everyone has a PEACEFUL and P-FREE holiday without bickering, abuse, and complaining! Instead filled with good food, joy and most of all PEACE.

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