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Scandal Must Come — 211 Comments

  1. Dorothy, it’s impossible for an empathetic human being to wrap their heads around the actions of a psychopath. We cannot and will never “understand” how and why these human predators sleep at night after the deceptions that they have perpetrated. We never will, regardless of research data, insights, and psychiatric labels.

    My job, as far as I can tell, is to acknowledge my own vulnerabilities and guard them with tooth, nail, and stone boundaries. At first, the focus was upon the psychopath/sociopath – what they did, why they did it, and, HOW they did it. Why? Because they DID target, use, abuse, and discard, and I believed that I needed (NEEDED) to “understand” all of this in order to recover. Well………the truth (not my opinion) is that we will never, ever, ever, EVER “understand” the universe that these predators live in. We cannot, and will not ever understand this because we have no personal frame of reference to compare deliberate targeting, using, and discarding of other human beings. We can read all of the books on the planet about personality disorders, and we can process the words into insight – we can apply those words to the person(s) that defrauded us, but we cannot “understand” these people, on any level.

    MY issues…….my frailties, vulnerabilities, and strengths all factored into what made me such a suitable and attractive target for every spath that I’ve ever encountered. THESE are the things that I have finally begun to focus upon to facilitate my recovery. At one point, the stalker sent me an email in which he accurately identified my “neediness” and desire for approval – even though he was 100% disordered, he clearly observed vulnerabilities that he was able to target and had begun to abuse for his own benefit.

    There are no guarantees in Life. I was not guaranteed to be raised in an emotionally and physically healthy family environment and dynamic. I was not guaranteed to just develop good, common sense and boundaries, via osmosis. I have to sort these things out BEFORE I’m targeted, used, abused, and discarded, ever again. And, this means by ANYONE – I’m currently involved with a female as an “employer” who has clearly demonstrated that I am insignificant except as a sharecropper and housemaid. Okay. I “get this,” and I’m NOT taking it personally, anymore. It is strictly a business relationship, and that’s all it will EVER be.

    As far as wanting a man? I used to crave and believe that I NEEDED a man in my life in order to FEEL whole, purposeful, loved, and complete. Well, I don’t. What I want and what I need are two polar opposites. What I truly “need” is to learn to validate, approve, accept, and rely upon MY SELF. No man is going to give me what I need. If I expect any man to give me what I need, then I’ll be victimized, again. Plain and simple. I’m in no position to trust another human being to care about me as much as I care about myself – I’m not. And, I’m not even going to entertain the idea of a partner or companion, perhaps, ever again. I will not – will not – will NOT compromise my own health and well-being for another person, ever again. I come first. I will see to my own needs. All of them.

    Today, it’s my recovery that is primary, secondary, and tertiary in My Life. Nobody can provide what I need except my Self. And, I was never taught that I was worthy or deserving of this simple “need” to trust my own Self.

    Long road. Lot of bumps and pot holes. But, I’m liking the results in tiny, tiny doses.

    • Truthy, You sound so strong……..I applaud you and admire your determination greatly. I hear it and FEEL it in your words.

      Here’s the deal with me and you don’t have to like it or agree with it but this is something I’ve come to see and know about myself in this relationshit. I am VERY domestic. I love nothing more than keeping a home and being in partnership in life. I have never felt more suited for something in my life. I can’t help that that is my make up. I know it to be true. Right now my home, my life, my finances…….it’s all in disarray from the damage this relationshit has done. it’s knocked the wind out of my sails and it feels like it may never come back fully. I’m not joking when I say that I had my shift together WAY better before I met that looser spath and was drinking to excess on a regular basis. I was so much more on top of so many things in spite of my alcohol abuse.
      ANyhow, I never had kids. I could have but I was not in any shape to raise them when that part of my life was happening. I do SO love to keep house and do all the domestic crap that most people dread and try to avoid at all costs. I feel in my soul that I was meant to be one half of a domestic partnership and still do all the things in my life that feed me on another level. I’m very old fashioned in a certain way…..like one of those people born in the wrong century. IDK……….the way society is these days makes no sense to me for the most part but I’m surrounded by it when I’m out in it. I come home, my mind quiets and I feel at peace. This is where i need to be, in my home. I go out and half the time i skip doing half of the errands I left to do just to get back here! I actually feel a little agoraphobic.
      I’m just saying…….I loved being partnered with spathtardx and a lot of the way we were together was good. Thats what hurts the most, to know that more than likely even the good was bad. it’s so foreign , like you said Truthy, I just can’t wrap my head around it and therefore it doesn’t seem real to me in a way and i just keep thinking there must be some mistake…….it’s something that my mind won’t let go of. I have never had this before in my life…….someone so low. It’s just incomprehensible.

    • Truth and Dorothy,
      The spath encounter always leaves us permanently changed. There’s no way around the slime of betrayal.
      A spath sees our flaws and uses them against us. They want to shame us for being human. Normal humans, love us and accept us despite our flaws or even BECAUSE of our flaws. Flaws are what make us human but spaths want us to be ashamed of being human. They want this because they envy our humanity, our connection to the herd.

      Connection is something that a predator will never have so they want to take our connection away from us too.

      Understanding this doesn’t solve the problem. The betrayal still changes us and we have to find a way to get used to that change.

      • Sky, no only to they want to “slime” us, but they want CONTROL over us, and if we deny them that control, then they want to destroy us. If they cannot control us, then we are stronger than they are, and they cannot accept that they are not the “kings of the world” with utter control. That is why Patrick hates me soo much and hates son Michael, he despises son Andrew because he looks down on Andrew, and he has always been able to control Andrew, but with Michael and me, he cannot control us and that makes him HATE US WITH A PURPLE PASSION….plus, he want to take control of the family fortune which he can’t do as long as I am alive or if I outlive my mother.

        He feels entitled to have everything our entire family has worked for for generations….and the thought that I might be able to stop him from getting this makes him RABID.

        For some it is money for others sex, but it is still bottom line about CONTROL. That is why NC is the ultimate spit in the face for them….that’s why they keep popping back up to try to interact so they can retake control. They are just like the danged coon, they want what they want and dont’ want to give up on it.

        • Oxy, I wish I could remember something Spathtardx said at the begining of the encounter. It was some little comment he slipped in that I took notice of in a very subtle way but didn’t have any real significance at that time. It was something to do with he didn’t think people who “have” shouldn’t share with people who don’t have. I’m assuming at this point he was referring to money since he has none, is living in Mommy’s basement and is in bankruptcy. But he always portrayed himself the victim of life……”oh man, I can’t have nothin”. Well Spathxtard, since you have stepped on your own dock your whole life, the only thing you seem to do well is impregnate women because you can’t keep it in your pants and have to be held financially responsible for the resulting children, have made one bad decision after another, don’t take care of the few possessions you DO still have (in Mommy’s basement), treat women like meaningless whores, drink and smoke your money away………it would seem that your poor standing in life has everything to do with your choices and sick desires. It’s no one else’s responsibility to bail you out of the toxic wast dump of a life you find yourself in at 48 years old………but Mommy will wipe your a** and keep you fed and dry. Disgusting.
          It appears that I’m going through an angry phase again.

  2. Yea, the 48 laws of power is a SCARY book….it is huge and small print, and it took me a LONG time to get through it because it was so TRIGGERING. If ever there was a “Psychopath’s play book” which we have all joked about because they behave in such similar ways, THIS IS IT.

    The Stalking the soul is a very good book as well and I have it in my permanent library. I have given away some of my books to people I thought might profit from them and to decrease the volume of P-books and healing books, but there are a few that I hang on to and reread once in a while and that is one of them. GOOD book.

    I’m like you, though, Sky, for those of us who have had multiple relationships with Ps I think tehre is something about US that causes us to be targeted repeatedly. I am coming to believe it is that our boundaries are not as strong as they need to be…we have too much empathy and want to give people the “benefit of the doubt” and so I am working on MYSELF to make myself less easily targeted. I no longer give trust to people but make them earn it…and if they show their arse before they have earned it, Ii am not gob-smacked by their bad behavior….so at least I can keep the emotional feeling of betrayal in check. That helps very much BTW.

  3. OxD, yepper – spaths maintain an INTENT to target, use, abuse, and destroy. That’s it, and that’s all. I agree that it has been an issue of my own personal boundaries and issues that made me appear to be such an attractive target. And, that work isn’t easy or simple – there’s no way that I’m going to change 53 years of dysfunction in 6 weeks of counseling therapy! LMAO!!!!!!!

    Dorothy, I never expected to be destitute and desperate at this stage of my life. I had always been a “loyal” partner and spouse, regardless of abuse or other issues. I’m loyal to ME, now. I had fully expected to spend the rest of my days with a partner, and I “had” a partner as long as I had monetary and social value. Once the exspath had run through my money, even his double-life didn’t matter, anymore. He needed rid of me for greener pastures – greener in the form of money and sexual youth.

    So, I’m learning to rely upon myself, now. I’m learning about my strengths and qualities that have helped me to survive this whole ugly mess. What I might have “wanted” or “needed” was not who I am meant to be. Women, in particular, are NOT taught that they are important, on their own, especially from our generation. Coming from a dysfunctional environment added to the misconception that a woman “needs” a man to be completed. I was raised to be wholly and completely codependent – to center other people in my life, rather than my own Self.

    There’s no easy or simple way to recover, and I may not like it, but it sure is empowering to know that I can (and, WILL) survive and emerge without compromising my values, strengths, and vulnerabilities for another human being.

  4. My parents were extreme right fanatics (fascists) and my father saw himself as the future leader of the movement, convinced that he would one day inherit the role from his older brother. He began practicing his oratory skills on me and my sisters, preaching the lies, when I was only 6 years old and it was a regular occurrence until I was 13. He forced us to sit and listen, and to look at him and stay focused. I hardly blinked. He was very hysterical and scary. When I turned 13, I started babysitting and started to watch tv, specially the late movies about World War II and what happened to the Jews. That is how I found out my parents were lying to me. After that, I never trusted anything they said again. I never spoke to them about what I had seen in the movies. I kept it to myself and this knowledge gave me freedom. My parents were disgusting to me from then on. Psychopaths sometimes find cover in oppressive political and religious dogmas that give them arguments to overpower vulnerable people. Persons like children are very easy preys. Spaths display «passion for their own cause» when they have an obedient audience. A trio of small kids, terrorized by the drama, were used as target practice for years. Finally, he never became the great leader he dreamed of, thank God. My sisters and I left and eventually, my mother left, leaving spath with no more of an audience than a bunch of drunks at the corner tavern.

    • Marcelle, at least you learned to see through your father’s lies at an early age. I knew a spath with the same outlook, he denied that the holocaust happened and actually perceived (or claimed to perceive) the Germans as victims of the Jews. He claimed Hitler was a nice guy. He also hates Abraham Lincoln. It’s so upside down and backwards, that it makes you wonder whether they really believe what they’re saying. I think that they know they are lying but they feel entitled to have slaves or kill people. The lies about being a victim are just an excuse to justify WHY they should be allowed to do evil. That’s the nature of scapegoating. It follows the 180 rule.

      It’s comforting to know that good has sometimes prevailed and people who think that way are relegated to preaching to drunks at the corner tavern. Imagine if WWII had not ended with the Allies prevailing!! 😯

      That reminds me of a movie I watched recently, “The Man Who Saved the World”. It’s about a spath who worked as a double agent during WWII. Maybe I should write an article about it, it’s based on a true story.

  5. Dear Marcelle, I am so glad that your parents were not able to warp you as well into one of their clones. Many times children are not able to escape and learn the truth…there are many cults, both religious and political, and they use the same methods to indoctrinate the vulnerable.

    People like this if the DO come to power get only worse. All religious have those who hate them, and that has always been the way it was I guess from the time we were living in caves–it is the believe like I do or die!

    My biological father was a Nazi sympathizer and he said the “only thing that was wrong with Hitler was he didn’t kill ALL the Jews” Thank God that my mother left him when I was 3 months old, but I went to live with him when I was 18 because I wanted to find out about him first hand, and I learned my lesson first hand. I was fortunate to get away alive. 2 of my three half sibs also got away, but one is just like him I think, from the things he publishes on the Internet, though I haven’t see him since he was 8 and I only talked to him a time or two on the phone. He apparently idolizes our sperm donor.

  6. Thank you for your warm welcome and support.

    Yes, I emerged from childhood as a tired soldier, yet still holding firm to the truth in my heart. This was only because I found an outside point of reference. This website is such an outside point of reference. It offers a method to spot the obvious, and not so obvious, damage left behind from our relationships with spaths of all kinds, plus a roadmap to a better outlook on life.

    I am using the concepts found in the articles I have read so far. Very liberating.

    I plan to read the chapter on MacGuffins again because it is complicated and still obscure for me.

    I understand the mirroring, the loss of boundaries, the projection. I’m working the Pearl.

    About mirroring, old couples often end up looking like one another, they finish each other’s sentences, often develop the same illnesses and take the same medication, eat the same food, catch the same cold, smell the same, talk the same, play the same roles, and follow a very predictable routine. They seem to have lost their individuality and personal boundaries, yet there is no spath there.

    What say you?

  7. Marcelle,
    Rene Girard writes that human beings all mirror each other.

    Although other animals also mirror each other, it seems that humans do it to an extreme. It’s how we learn, especially as infants. Psychopaths, having never grown up, continue to copy as much as infants do and for the same reason: they never developed their own identity. For them, mirroring is pathological.

    We are all susceptible to it though. We follow trends, copy mannerisms, yawn at each other and are affected by each other’s moods.

    Girard’s theories are several decades old, but recently there have been some scientific breakthroughs that confirm his insights. These pertain to the mirror neurons recently discovered in the brains of primates and humans. There are some books and websites that discuss mirror neurons much better than I could — try Googling it.

    Mirroring is like psychic contagion. There is no doubt that human beings contaminate each other. That’s why NC and Gray Rock are so important. They protect us from emotional contagion.

    As far as your questions about the MacGuffin… In story telling, it’s similar to the “plot device”, in that it propels the action forward.

    The reason my article is a bit difficult to understand is because I intended several meanings. In one meaning, I’m explaining that spaths tempt us with their contrived desires in order to get us to chase something (move the action forward).

    But in another meaning, I’m also saying that this world is an illusion and everything is a MacGuffin. We assign meaning to things, people and places according to our experience of it. So if someone wants to manipulate us, they can simply get us to feel that something is meaningful or important in some way. For example, money is just paper but we assign the value to it. Borders are just lines in the sand but we assign a label to them and call it our territory. Relationships, titles and status are valued according to what meaning we give them.

    For spaths easy to assign meaning to things and then get people to believe their lies because they don’t believe in ANYTHING.

    This is what Jesus was alluding to when he said, “I am in this world, but not of it.”

    • Skylar,

      Thank you for your explanation on MacGuffins. I also googled the mirror neurons on Wikipedia and I was not surprised to read that women scored higher than men on the mirroring neuron scale, it being linked to empathy. The world goes round and round.

      Here is a little something about imitation, brain function, emotion and culture, my best recollection of a one hour program seen many many years ago with biologist David Suzuki, called The Nature of Things, on Canada’s CBC. I have been unsuccessful in tracing it on Google.

      We have specific cells in our brain that allow us to recognize our own face ant that of others, and to recognize the emotion expressed.

      Some people don’t have these cells and can’t recognize their own face or that of others. They also are unable to decode emotional expressions. Some people have no cells at all and some have a bit more so the degree of this handicap can vary.

      These brain cells act involuntarily.

      They have an effect on our facial expression. When we see someone’s emotion through their facial expression, we involuntarily copy that. In so doing, we cause a similar emotion in ourselves. We then feel connected to the other and we feel their emotion as our own. This is the basis of empathy. Empathy is essential to human community and solidarity. Feeling with others saves humans from collective destruction.

      Experiments have shown that cross-culturally, there are five basic emotions which are recognized through facial expression: sad, happy, surprised, fearful and angry.

      This mechanism is used by actors on the big screen to make the audience respond similarly and feel the same emotion. This is fine at the cinema but in our private life, it is horrible to be forced to feel an spath’s phony emotions. You are right when you recommend to observe the spath while looking away. It is also a good self-protecting strategy. When you spoke with your exspath on the phone, you at least did not look him in the eye, although I sometimes feel that the telephone can also be very intrusive.

      As a child, I would often protect myself whenever my father would go into one of his raging lectures, by twirling my hair on the top-side of my head, so I would have a good reason to look away from him.

      Another info I would like to share with you: In her book «Revolution from within: a book of self-esteem», Gloria Steinem says that our culture creates men who lack empathy and women who have it in excess.

      I’m going to read that again too. It is like we have been set up. I was a social worker, trained to help and save the world. Now I am saving myself.

      Lovely to be here, take care.

      • Marcelle, welcome to 180rule, and I’m grateful for you that you were able to “see” truth at an early age and maintain your own beliefs and identity even in the face of the brainwashing attempts.

        The first thing that an invading nation does to the vanquished is to remove their systems of beliefs – particularly their religious beliefs and rituals. This is also true in instances where people are targeted by the disordered – their core-beliefs are either reformed or used against them by the disordered.

        As for old people mirroring, there can (italics lacking) be some degree of this, but in HEALTHY relationships, it’s more of settling into a place that is comfortable and presents continuity. There are many healthy relationships out there that are based upon truth, honesty, empathy, mutual respect, and communication. On this site (as well as others) the majority of the bloggers are emerging from all manners of toxic relationships, and the support system to find that balance of Self is maintained by sharing our experiences, emergence, and healing processes.

        I take heart and hope from those old couples that have enjoyed a healthy relationship simply because I prefer the “feeling” of acceptance and hope rather than carrying a burden of cynicism and disdain on my shoulders. Acceptance and hope are somehow much lighter to carry, for me. 🙂

        Again, welcome, and congratulations on choosing to save your Self.

      • Marcelle,
        that’s interesting about the facial recognition. I did some googling and found this:
        http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/About-Us/News/News-Releases-2013/Neurons-in-Brains-Face-Recognition-Center-Respond-Differently-in-Patients-With-Autism.aspx

        It says that people with autism have a hard time recognizing emotions around the eyes. Instead they focus on the mouth. This is linked to some brain cells in the amygdala.

        This is why I believe that people with autism-spectrum disorders are more vulnerable to spaths. The spaths will usually show emotion with their mouths but their eyes stay emotionless. Well… except for my spath sister, she practices crinkling her eyes when she smiles –she told me.

        The spaths study us to learn how to mimic us. That’s another reason why it’s best not to be in their presence.

        When they mirror us, it becomes difficult to constantly fight the tendency to believe that it’s a real person. It’s hard to believe that a human being could be so completely lacking in identity, especially when they are performing a role. No matter how hard we resist, it’s a natural tendency to believe there is something real there. But there isn’t.

  8. Hi Skylar,

    Thank you for the link on autism. This is fascinating. I used to take care of a young high-functioning autistic young neighbour once in a while and her behaviour fit the description. She avoided looking at people in the eyes. She approached them sideways, head bent, seemed shy. We had a great time. I taught her how to understand and tell a joke and I believe I was the first to witness her laughing her heart out. What we enjoyed most was our tea parties, pretending we were old ladies sharing bits of news together.

    I would think that people with autism are less vulnerable because they don’t pick up on the dissonance between eyes and mouth. They only see half of the message.

    What is so disturbing with spaths is the opposite expressions between mouth and eyes. We see evil in their eyes and it doesn’t match the smile and the sweet talk. And the sweet talk doesn’t match with our gut feeling. So we try to reassure ourselves, first by denying our gut feeling and then by telling ourself that we must be wrong. We rewrite reality and pretty soon, we become so confused that we don’t know what and who to believe. That is the most lonely experience we can have. No one to talk to, no one who believes us, not even our self.

    You say, it is a natural tendency to believe there is something there but there isn’t. Well, there is something there but not what you would like to believe or see. So you use your own emotions, your own identity and fill the void with a projection. As Byron Katie would say, turn it around.

    In her book, Women who love too much, Robin Norwood explains that little girls learn to find consolation by taking care of their dolls when they are sad. We are trained to accept substitutes for our own needs. When we reach adulthood, we are very good at taking care of others needs and feeding our emotional connection that way. Empaths easily fall into codependency.

    Spaths prey on our infinite ability to sense other people’s needs and they mimic us to the point that we lose our boundaries and begin thinking that we are feeling them, we have a connection, they are like us, they are part of us and that taking care of them is like taking care of us. Meanwhile, just like in the movie The Matrix, the desolation begins to spread under the surface and we don’t see it. When we wake up, there is nothing. The spath was a fiction, a projection of our mind, and that was possible because of our talent for emotional connection. We thought we were with someone, but we were not. We were emotionally alone all the time.

    One thing I forgot to mention about the facial connection to emotion, if you take on an expression, when you are just by yourself, pretty soon you will feel the emotion, for instance, smiling will give you a good feeling inside, with no external stimuli. An spath can’t do that. And when he mirrors your smiling, he doesn’t get the good feeling inside either. He doesn’t get a feeling either way. So the mirroring is one way only. When interacting with an spath, we give real smiles and receive a caricature of a smile. In true communication, it goes back and forth. You give, you receive. With an spath, you might as well be alone, because, as you say, he is not there.

    I did a therapy a long time ago, and my therapist explained that it was ok to give but after giving two times, if it didn’t come back, I should stop giving. I try to apply that in my life. When I forget, I get into a mental fog, I’m fighting shadows in my mind. To me that is the worse kind of problem. I’m in that kind of a period right now and I’m working at recovering my clarity of mind inch by inch.

    Living a good life is an art I practice one day at a time. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. On a scale of one to ten I would give me an 8 right now. Feels good talking to you.

    Bye for now.

  9. Marcelle,
    I’m glad that our conversation is soothing your soul a little bit. I don’t know what I’d do without all the people who are on this journey with me, here on 180rule. It’s not an easy path for any of us, but companions lighten the load.

    The reason I think that autistics may be more vulnerable to psychopaths is because if they don’t see the disconnect between the eyes and the mouth, they would assume that nothing was wrong and are more likely to fall for the psychopath’s lies. You are right though, that, even when we see the disconnected eyes, unless we know WHAT we are seeing, we might be tempted to rationalize or excuse it.

    It’s definitely true that we project our good qualities on to the spaths. They, in turn, project all their bad qualities on to us. The mirror neurons are still being investigated and hopefully that research will shed light on how projection and scapegoating works. The only thing I know is that the scapegoater must actually believe s/he is justified in doing violence because the victim “deserves” it.

    This concept of “deserving” is connected to the idea of rules, fairness, right and wrong. Only with a psychopath, it gets twisted by their narcissistic sense of entitlement.

    Yep, I’m still working on my boundaries too. I don’t feel that I’ve been very successful. Baby steps for me. Though I will say that the boundaries around my emotions are extremely good now. I just have to work on boundaries around whom I allow to approach me.

    I have no problem with giving because I’ve made up my mind to give without expectations of any kind. When I give it is for the simple reason that I want to. This way, I can’t be disappointed. Your therapist may have been thinking that it would be good practice to use the rule of two times because it would help you to assess the people in your life. Are they givers or are they takers? The rule of two times would be useful in thinning the rolodex by spotting the toxic takers in our lives. I like that rule. I’m going to remember it.

    • Hi Skylar,

      Thank you for your insight. I have been reading the comments and I want to thank all of you, so wise, each in your own way, Tuthspeak and Oxdrover, thanks.

      About the advice from my therapist, I never thought of simply stopping and assessing the people in my life. I love the idea.

      I work on boundaries by asking myself if xyz is my responsibility. I used to work with a doctor who had had a burnout. He said that whenever he felt he was slipping back, he would repeat «it’s not me, it’s her – it’s not me, it’s him». That helped him detach instead of taking all his patient’s problems on his shoulders.

      I’m now retired but I used to work in a legal job where I reviewed a lot of difficult cases. I was overworked and the only way I could remain clearheaded was to set boundaries, which I find difficult to do when I’m tired. When I’m exhausted, I get the crazies, I talk to myself, my head is spinning, the past keep popping up. I can’t handle stress like I used to. Getting rest is my priority no 1.

      Probably my spaths – father, ex-husband and his «friends», plus a few other spaths that I met along the way – could see that I was vulnerable when tired. Taking on too much led me to burnout at 17 and at 40. Now in my sixties, I have more than 20 years of recovery practice under my belt and luckily, I haven’t had a burnout. It is always day one for me.

      Last September, I had to deal with a couple of tough situations that wouldn’t go away by themselves. That stressed me out. All is fine now and I’m slowly getting back to my normal, peaceful life.

      You have been a great help.Thank you again for your support.

      • Marcelle, I’m grateful that you’re finding your way back to a peaceful path.

        One of the most difficult things that I’ve processed on this journey was the fact (not opinion, viewpoint, or belief) that there are some people out there who simply do not care. When I was first personally acquainted with this phrase, I was absolutely dumbstruck – literally, my tongue cleaved to my upper mandible, and I wasn’t even able to respond to this phrase.

        How can another human being that hasn’t been convicted of a serious crime simply “not care?” How is that even possible? Well, it just is.

        Where this journey began with a disastrous separation and divorce matter, it’s evolved into an exploration of the issues throughout my life that I never processed and caused me to present a neediness that had become a pathology. I had become toxic to my own Self as a result of a lifetime of traumas that I had never processed. This is when I met my “Inner Child.”

        There is a great deal that I regret, but there is very much more that I am grateful for. Had I NOT discovered what the exspath was, I would STILL be wandering around with blinders on and wondering why people were always so mean to me. 😉

      • Truthspeak,
        there is a youtube video somewhere with an interview of the Green River murderer. He was asked what made him different from other people. His reply: “That caring thing.”

        The man gives me the creeps just watching him. But more than that, it’s extraordinary to consider what it would be like to never be moved by anything. I can compare moments in my life when I cared, to other moments when I was unmoved, and I can’t imagine living life without ever feeling moved to care. Yet these people really feel nothing except perhaps, occasionally, for themselves.

        Marcelle,
        The mistake we make when we are confronted with a manipulator, is that we care too much. Our boundaries on what we need to expend our caring on, are too wide. (In my case, they were non-existent.) The manipulator will create dramatic scenarios JUST to watch us scramble to the rescue. You are wise to work on those boundaries, so that, when the time comes to attend to things we really ARE responsible for, you’ll have the energy and resources.

        This is why survivors of spath attacks always look so tired, drained and worried. It’s a sabotage that the spaths insert in us by appealing to our empathy.

        It’s ironic, that the people who care the least, who have the least compassion or empathy, have the audacity and capacity to inspire our compassion only to trample it like swine.

        • Sky, the fact that some people are incapable of being moved was a fact that I had a very, very difficult time processing and accepting. I have been moved to tears by a sunrise or the sound of a laughing baby, and my “feelings” have always been beyond hyper-empathetic, to my own detriment.

          “Bad” or toxic people are able to recognize this hypersensitivity and use it to their own ends. I still have intense feelings, but I keep them to myself and RARELY express them, in the open. Perhaps, this is precisely the reason that I haven’t been able to express myself creatively. I will find a balance, in due time.

          I’ve told my counselor that I have always wanted to BE one of those peaceful, centered, and spiritual people who bring light, joy, and calm to others. She responded that most of “those people” have emerged from their own traumas and found inner peace through their healing processes. I didn’t understand this concept when she said it, but it’s beginning to make sense to me, now. Although I do not “feel sorry” for manipulators, toxic people, or sociopaths/psychopaths, I DO pity them that they are (as you aptly put it) unmoved by ANYthing. Nothing touches that deepest part of their being – nothing. Even when they commit the most heinous crimes and experience a thrill during their crimes is fleeting and superficial which is why they must (MUST) ramp up their deceptions, betrayals, and shocking behaviors.

          They are empty and devoid of any ability or desire to connect. I cannot imagine what an empty, desolate world these people live in, and I have NO desire or compulsion to “understand” or sympathize with this emptiness. I only have the ability to pity such a dreadful existence and thank God, daily, that I have the ability to experience feelings, no matter which way those feelings swing.

          • Hi *I’m a new escapee from a 29 year marriage to a very awful man. I look very tired. Probably from all the shock. I just cannot believe I was under the spell or in the chains, for so long. Was I comfortable being so miserable? How did he do it? ugh. Still reading, processing. Group therapy at a womens shelter begins for me in a couple weeks. I have signed up to volunteer at a couple places – just to try to start new. Had to move far away. I am in hiding. I have no friends. Family I have no contact with most for they may just double cross me. No job *haven’t worked in years. No personal/professional references. No marketable skills, yet.

            I am so determined to learn and get my life back. That is how I came to be here. Met someone on a forum that suggested this place to me. Someone I truly connected with recently.

            I am hurt, angry, and very unsure. So, I will put whatever energy I have left into building myself.

            Hello to everyone. 🙂

          • Dared2B,
            We all wonder why we stayed so long. It usually turns out that there are several reasons, beyond the fact that the spaths are master manipulators.

            The trauma bond is one reason. You can read more about that here:
            http://180rule.com/definiciones/trauma-bond/

            Another reason can be that some of us are accustomed to being mistreated. Usually our parents or some other relationship, early in our lives, set the thermostat on how much heat we will put up with.

            There is a lot to learn. You might try starting with the lexicon tab at top. It is a list of words that we use to explain the experience of evil. Historically, people did not understand psychopathy, did not discuss the trauma and shame they cause and consequently we are sometimes having to coin new words to explain what we experienced.

            Somehow, these words and definitions, seem to fill in the details on what we experienced as a big WTF? moment.

        • Truthy,
          You said, “nothing touches the deepest part of their being…”
          I propose that they don’t have a deepest part in their being. Really, as perpetual infants, they have never developed any depth.

          Depth requires emotional experiences. Someone who has numbed their feelings to the extent that they don’t have any, can never acquire depth, because they have not acquired experiences. It is sad.

          • Sky, 100% spot-on. And, it is absolutely pitiable to me. Though I feel pity that a human being has no ability to feel, I do not feel sorry for these people. They do what they do simply because they can.

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