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Russell Brand Using the 180 Rule — 67 Comments

  1. Annette,
    that first song, Wide Awake, brought tears to my eyes.
    I can relate to the imagery so much. The image of the little girl, her younger self, showing her how to heal –that is a powerful message.
    Thanks for linking it.

    • My teenage son showed me the song, he knew it would have meaning to me. I listened to it over and over at first and cried and cried. It was cathartic.

      My best friend brought Katy Perry’s movie over to watch (I rarely watch movies, TV,etc. either, but made an exception for this for a bunch of reasons.) It was heartbreaking to watch, but very clear what Russel Brand’s effect on her life was. It was painful to see someone else’s pain at the hands of a psychopath. I don’t think most people ‘get it.’ I would not have understood the existence of psychopaths and psychopathy until i experienced one.

      She does another song called ‘Hot n Cold,’ here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3dG1FGQRMk
      which is a pretty good description of a tactic my ex Psychopath used a lot to torture me, before I figured it out (it took years, I was so confused). My son showed me this song, too.

  2. I saw him do a routine in a comedy club line up in South London over a decade ago – long before he became famous. He wasn’t funny, his act was dying and he was being ignored by the audience (people getting up to get drinks, talking to each other etc). He made a great play of stopping his act, saying he was still learning his craft, he was sorry he wasn’t making us laugh but that he wished us all peace and love and happy lives. Just as i was starting to feel sorry for him, he turned, dropped his pants and mooned (bare buttocks) at the audience.

    He showed his real attitude to the audience that night. I thought he came over as someone desparate for attention but with no comedic talent – i was astonished when he turned up on tv a few years later – and then went global!

  3. Hi Sheldon, thanks for your comment.
    I’ve been getting a lot of hits on this article in the last couple days and I think it’s because of his latest interview on BBC’s “Newsnight” with Jeremy Paxman. The video went viral.

    Thanks for sharing your experience in the audience. In your short vignette, you described perfectly, the idealize and discard of the narcissist. The narcissist wanted attention, he didn’t get it and felt a narcissistic injury, so he used the charm and pity ploy to get them to drop their defenses. “Sorry, peace and love” were the trigger words to humanize himself. Then as soon as he had them feeling for him, he mooned them. This is classic spath behavior.

    I almost feel bad for holding him up as a poster child for narcissistic behavior, but wow! he makes it so EASY.

    The reason I feel bad is because I can see that he’s an intelligent person. I don’t disagree with the points he makes in the interview, . He makes an excellent point that voting is hypocritical because nothing will change when we are only voting for what we HOPE is the lesser of two evils. lol.

    He understands that each candidate has already been vetted by the corporate interests that pour money into their puppets to make them dance. He’s very articulate, insightful and understands the root of the problem. He despises the powers that be, but he doesn’t really care about people. He could offer no solutions to Paxton because he hasn’t really considered any. He has no hope for a better solution. He wants revolution for the sake of revolution — collateral damage be damned.

    This is why so many disordered people can take leadership roles and people follow them like sheep. They can be very convincing. We need to stop listening just to their rhetoric and observe how they lead their personal lives — then choose the lesser of two evils… 🙁

  4. Sky and Anette

    Wow, the Kay Perry songs are on target. The wikipedia article written about the WIDE AWAKE song doesn’t get it. It’s too bad she doesn’t call out “psychopath” because he clearly is. The second song HOT & HOLD is on target too, my spath did that constantly. Bi Polar Spath? Who knows. Just a piece of garbage. And yet here I am still recovering and still hurting. Ridiculous.

    Thanks for the find and for validating my experience.

    Great music.

  5. Athena, there is clinical research that shows that a high percentage of psychopaths are ALSO Bi-polar, and bi polar by itself can be BAD and you put the two together and it is BAAAAAAD. Many different personality problems (like Borderline etc) also have a high percentage of Bi Polar and we know that both psychopathy AND bi polar are largely genetic. ADHD is another genetic trait and is also connected to PPD. The man who my son sent to target me was all three, psychopath, ADHD and Bi Polar. Also a higher percentage of psychopaths are LEFT HANDED than in the general population. Both my son and the trojan horse are left handed as well. I’m not really sure if my son is bi-polar or not, it ususally doesn’t be come apparent until young adulthood, and by then he was out of my house and I haven’t been around him enough to know if he might be or not. I do know Patrick is not ADHD. My other biological son “Andrew” however IS very highly ADHD. Dr. Liane Leedom’s theory and several others who are familiar with or do research on PPD is that they are connected genetically.

    • Hi Oxdrover, I read your story on Family Arrested and I can’t even begin to imagine the agony you have been through. I hope the realization that your son is a psychopath has at least helped you to stop wondering where you went wrong and brought you some measure of peace.

      I have recently been doing an awful lot of reading about spaths and other personality disorders (like the rest of us on here I have no doubt) and I was surprised to hear that your son displayed absolutely no signs of his disorder until he turned 15. From what I’ve read the signs are usually there even in early childhood, although you might only recognize them in hindsight.

      I’m sure you are right that getting therapy, whichever form it takes, is definitely the key to beginning your recovery. It has made a huge difference to me because it has lifted the ton of guilt I was always carrying around in the belief that it was all somehow my fault. After all, that is what your abusers tell you (and anyone else who’ll listen) so regardless of whether you “feel” like it’s not your fault, deep down you still believe them. Educating myself through reading books and websites and “hearing” others stories has changed me from feeling like a victim to actually feeling empowered for the first time, at the age of 63! 🙂

      • Fitzo, at 66 i can sure relate….as a retired mental health professional and advanced practice nurse, I know that we have a great deal of OUTSIGHT and very little INsight at times. We see what is wrong with others but not what WE are doing wrong (enabling these monsters)

        In HINDSIGHT ONLY I can look back and see a few things he did that were consistent with his soon to be blatant P behavior, but at the same time no kid is 100% perfect, but even at a young age he knew how to manipulate adults and get their appproval….I did also notice that when my husband deserted us and left us high and dry….Patrick was 9. His older brother CRIED for a couple of years about the desertion, heart broken, but Patrick was MAD, he was filled with rage against Joe…but a QUIET rage. At age 11 he stole some money and a check to purchase a radio he wanted that I had told him I couldn’t afford, and when confronted, DENIED IT, then when punished, ran away from home. But heck, what kid has never stolen something, and lied about it, and some have even run away from home and still turned out okay. He did well in school and except for those instances he seemed the “ideal ” kid.

        Heck, I had stolen a quarter or two out of my mom’s purse so I figured what he stole was “inflation” LOL In fact, Patrick was so compliant we used to call him “little Peter Perfect” because he would say things like “Well, I didn’t spill MY milk” after his ADHD brother had spilledhis milk at EVERY meal. LOL He was careful to not get dirty playing, his brother was like “Pig Pen” in Charlie Brown cartoons. LOL I can look back at several things that may have been precursors to his becoming a P but most of them can legitimately be passed off as “normal kid” IN HIND SIGHT. His over all behavior before about 15 though was definitely well within NORMAL LIMITS…and keep i n mind too, that compared to his ADHD brother who was ALWAYS a challenge, he was an angel!

        BTW ADHD as well as bi-polar and left handedness are frequently found in psychopaths. Both the ADHD and most probably bi-polar as well as psychopathy are found in family members on BOTH sides of his genealogy and on BOTH sides of my family as well. I am coming to the conclusion that my ADHD son is also Bi-polar, and if Patrick is bi-polar it didn’t show up until he went to jail and BP doesn’t generally show up until well into adolescence so I haven’t been around him enough to make an assessment.

        I have studied psychopathy for a long time, read every research paper I could put my hands on because I have seen so much of it in both my family and my son’s father’s family.

        Oh and BTW Patrick is a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, in narcissism. Just exactly like my bio-father and his paternal grandfather as well.

    • My psychopathic ex was mostly left handed, and very ambidextrous, which I think I read somewhere there is even more of a difference in incidence in psychopathy versus general population than left-handedness.

  6. I just watched the Wide Awake video. It made me REALLY happy for her. I love when people wake up, dig deep, and come back as better people than they were when they went into the darkness.

    I just went to a conference where Robert Wicks spoke. He wrote, among other books, Riding The Dragon. He was an incredible speaker, and an amazingly intelligent and generous man. This book is about how there will always be darkness, and it will intermittently affect us….even if we’re wide awake. He gives insight on how to use our experiences with darkness (depression, PTSD, and other expressions of ‘darkness’) to make us deeper and deeper people. How to become and stay aware and resilient, so these experiences don’t tear us down, but instead make us stronger.

    His primary focus is on ‘secondary stress’. This is the stress that people who help other people experience. He has worked with the caregivers who helped the folks during the genocide in Rwanda (spelling?), and rescuers in Haiti. People who have seen immense suffering.

    He talked a lot about the stress of being a compassionate, open-hearted, giving, and passionate person. How being this way means we are called to work in ‘dark places’, to bring healing.

    I think psychopaths have a nose for our goodness and caring (obviously, right?). Katy Perry’s video embodied what he talked about in terms of developing resilience, so that we can go on being deeply compassionate. It involves self-reflection, mindfulness practice, and self-respect (boy, am I simplifying here…but you get the idea). He stresses a ‘self care practice’.

    I am going to get this guys books: Riding the Dragon, and Bounce. I will let you know how they are.


  7. Thanks for that information Slim, and yes, caregiver stress is very very REAL. Back when I worked in a rehabililtation hospital with head and spinal cord injures and some strokes, we would have the patients sometimes for a year or more and become very attached to them, and it was heart breaking to take care of a wonderful kid who had an AV malformation (a blood vessel group at the base of the brain) that rupture and left them totally paralyzed below the eyes….it is called the “locked in syndrome” and means a LIVE BRAIN in a totally helpless body… they can only communicate via their eyes and sometimes computer help.

    Watching the grief of their families…Or kids who broke their necks or backs…

    But I always said if I sent ALL my time crying in the bathroom at work I’d get out, or if I NEVER went into the bathroom and cried for a patient, I would get out. It is tough, but rewarding too.

    I took care of my step day with cancer for 18 months and part of that time, nearly a year with my mother’s recovery from abdominal surgery that went wrong..and I had hospice and home care and a hired housekeeper and the community support and yet it was exhausting. My dad, bless his heart was the BEST patient in the world…and those 18 months were GOOD times I had with him and I would never wish them away. I saw just HOW MUCH HE LOVED ME….and later saw just how LITTLE my mother loved me, or appreciated what I had done for her or for him. She began to demand more and more of my time for things she could have handled herself, and tried to deny me the time to grieve over the loss of my husband when he burned to death in front of my eyes, and when I tried to set boundaries, she devalued and discarded me. That hurt, but over the years I have come to realize that by the age of 6 or 7 I had already realized subconsciously at least that she didn’t love me….and later I came to see how she was programmed to “rescue” the bad boy in the family and she continues to do this today even though the rest of us refuse to associate with her as a result.
    Yea, it IS like riding a dragon, or a tiger…and getting off is risky and painful, and can be even deadly.

    I think I’d probably like his books, let us know.

  8. Slim,
    Interesting title for a book. “Riding the dragon” is a term usually associated with heroin use. I will be curious to hear about your opinion of the books and if there is a connection for why he chose that title.

    I’m interested in what he has to say about self care. Self care is one of the hardest things to learn for those of us trained to care more about others, than ourselves.

    I just finished watching Elizabeth I, The Virgin Queen on netflix. wow. This movie really puts a spin on her life story, that I had never really considered.

    Imagine being the child of King Henry VIII. He was a treacherous monster who had Elizabeth’s mother, Anne Boleyn, executed. I’ve no doubt he was a spath, since he betrayed all his wives.

    The movie portrays Elizabeth’s emotional life in the most complex manner. I could see how she manipulated others, never trusting anyone – and with good reason, there was always someone plotting against her.

    There was lots of Girardian rivalry portrayed too. Her sister, queen Mary, hated her. And later one can see that her lady in waiting, Lettice, really wanted to BE her. She married the one man whom Elizabeth actually loved and she emulated Elizabeth’s appearance.

    It was also interesting that Elizabeth kept surrounding herself with duplicitous people. All the people she loved kept betraying her — I can certainly relate. Yet she still managed to reign for over 40 years. In the end, Lettice’s son is shown to have severe bi-polar and borderline issues.
    *Spoiler Alert*: He dies trying to please his mommy by betraying the queen.

    The movie does an excellent job of showing how family slime keeps getting passed on, yet it’s subtle too. If you were not familiar with personality disorders and their contagion, you might not even notice it going on under all the action and intrigue of palace life.

    There are lots of threads woven under the plot. Lots of social commentary and psychological profiles. It was a very interesting movie, especially considering that it was based on truth.

  9. Oxy,

    Yeah, secondary stress is very real. I have taken care of my share of pt’s with heartbreaking conditions, and now I do hospice work. So I also understand how awesome it must have been helping your dad, even though death was near. These delicate situations, so immediate and fragile, are some of life’s most enriching. I am really glad you had that time with him. Interesting how getting validation and love from him shone some light on you and your mother’s relationship. When we get the real deal the fake stuff stands out pretty distinctly….

    Dr. Wick talked quite a bit about not turning away from reality, as a means to being truly fulfilled. Even when the truth hurts and disappoints. As I listened to him yesterday I found myself reflecting on my own experiences in dealing with pain, sorrow, betrayal….darkness. And I found myself SO moved by what he had to say about how tranformative (and inevitable) these experiences are. How, when we FACE them, allow ourselves time to reflect, maintain our committment to examining our truth and intentions, and spend time caring for ourselves, these dark experiences make us more knowledgeable, and capable. They increase our capacity to love.

    This so much reflects my experience that as I listened to him I found myself feeling extremely grateful to all the people and situations that supported me in rising from the ashes. I wish I could send his whole talk to all of you….but I am pretty sure you can find some of his talks on the internet.

    Sky, I think he just meant that challenges are like riding a big, hot, mean dragon. He didn’t say as much. But if, when I read the book, he explains it….I’ll let you know. King Henry WAS a horrible man. The movie sounds interesting. Gonna put it in my queue.

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