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Psychopaths Envy Our Values. — 252 Comments

  1. Ancientheart, the left-handedness and so forth are interesting, to be sure. Of course, those characteristics don’t absolutely preclude one to sociopathy or psychopathy, but it’s sort of similar to the data for alcoholism where a left-handed, red-headed, Irish-Catholic is more likely to be “prone” to alcoholism. LOL!!! It’s just a weird observation, right?

    The one thing about spaths is that they all follow an almost identical pattern of behaviors throughout their frauds, bar none. They spy their targets, assess the values and vulnerabilities, ENVY what they observe, work the pity ploy, gain targets’ confidences and trust, play the target, commit the fraud, and discard the target. They may each have different methods to accomplish their steps, but they ALL do the same thing.

    And, I am really, really, REALLY beginning to understand and pay close attention to what “GLIB” means. That’s a first indicator for me, personally. I now pay very close attention to the words that people use, how and when they use them, and assessing what the desired response of those words is. Like OxD wrote, watch, observe, and keep those boundaries tight!

    • When Skylar remarked awhile back that psychopaths are all the same, she nailed the “what,” and all of you have added proof as well as acknowledgement that regardless of the “hows,” the What is the same.

      Words and language are used as traps, weapons, and that is probably one of the trickiest tactics in their arsenal. I’ve been reading The Risen book, and have immersed myself in it ever since I bought it. I was just reading about language as being a machinated form of communication, at best it’s a simulation of experience and that fact is so easily used in a psychopath’s arsenal because it’s made to order for them. I’ve also come upon some paragraphs by The Risen collective in this book which I know are describing psychopaths but that term isn’t used. I recommend this book, The Risen, so highly, not only for those who have suffered loss of any nature, but for those who have spiritual questions about so much more. This book is life changing for me and could not have arrived in my life at a more important time. I’ve had some very powerful spiritual “coincidences” since I’ve been immersed in this material too which are extremely exciting!

      I’m not visiting much also because of what seem to be computer problems on my end, so if I don’t reply or participate often, it’s because of that.

      • Ancient Heart,
        I was just thinking about that today. The fact that they are presenting same behaviors, indicates that it is an illness. Even those that have never met, still act similarly. It’s been the same shame and envy for thousands of years. It sure sounds like a disease to me.

        • maybe they are a plague.
          I was talking with a friend of mine and she had one for a husband for 20-30(?) years>>> Now an X-husband thank Gawd!…….everything I am telling her she gets…..Yep, Im SURE he is a spath. Then she tells me things about him and I just sit there and nod my head knowingly. Yep…..Spath! Text book!

        • There is a description in The Risen by one of the authors, in one of his spiritual experiences into spiritual realms he passed by a horde of deformed, screaming, clutching nasty little “monster babies.” He said they were bluish in color, and quite annoying. He asked one of his spiritual companions what those “things” were, and my recollection from his writing was that the reply from his spiritual companion was that these deformed little nasty things were like parasites, attaching to both the spiritual experience the author was having in order to feed off the energy, as well as to try to drag the experience down to a lower vibration, and if they could cause fear, irritation, and other negative energies from the author they would feed off of those too.

          The description gave me the impression that these “things” were the lower astral energies of little tyrants, quite unevolved, demanding little leeches.

          Through his travels back into the material realm, he passed by these little “monster babies” but then knowing what they were, as well as having raised his vibrations higher, they were far less irritating to him and he just basically blew right by them.
          This experience he described is just one of several I have come upon from The Risen book, and it seems that darkness is the disease. Spiritual darkness.

          To me, a disease implies that it is something out of our control. While there are tragedies, traumas and negative experiences, we each have the inborn sense to call for help because we are all one. Ask and ye shall receive. The Risen author said Jesus was one of the most powerful mediums on Earth.

          I feel that psychopaths choose, more often than not, the darkness. Light and God are ever present but they are willfully rejected by psychopaths.

          I know this is off topic, but one of the most beautiful aspects of The Risen book is their love for animals, Skylar. They feel as I do for them. Their gentle souls are so innocent and so pure. Their love so shameless. They are very much a part of the higher realms. Oh there is so much to learn. So much for us to learn. Actually, to remember.

          • Ancientheart,
            Sometimes we call evil “a choice”, but maybe the more accurate word is “a struggle”. I never thought I would struggle so much to be free of the slime of evil people. I struggle daily. Watching the news, seeing how unjust, entitled and malicious the psychopaths are, it is a struggle not to feel scandalized.

            In the past I just stayed blind, but now I can’t be blind to it because I know that would make me vulnerable. So I struggle not to feel slimed.

            Psychopaths, on the other hand, WALLOW in their slime. I caught a glimpse of this when I was with the spath. When something bad happened, he had to blow it out of proportion, dramatize and go on and on. I told him, “Spath, no matter how bad things get, I can always count on you to make it worse.”

            They are addicted to their shameful behavior and they love to hate. And they want us to be like them, so they slime us. We have to struggle against that slime.

            Anna Valerious from the blog narcissists-suck stated it this way:

            Let’s look at the statement above, “…all humans struggle against being selfish.” No, they don’t. THAT is what this blog is about. The ones who don’t struggle against their selfish urges. It is about those human beings who long ago gave up any struggle against their lusts, their selfish entitlement attitude, their demands, their need to control others. Some, I believe, have never put up a real fight against their own selfish demands.

            http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2009/03/malignant-narcissism-brief-overview.html

            Just as it is a struggle to be healthy, by making healthy choices for our bodies, it is also a struggle to have a healthy mind.

  2. Dorothy, you have just experienced a moment of clarity which will be followed by many, many more. TOWANDA!

    The “longing” that you are fighting is a “normal” wish – we long for what we thought was real. But, it is only the illusion that we long for, right? It’s a faรงade. It’s a fraud. It’s not what they really are. When that illusion begins to dissipate, the smoke clears and all of the “never ending love” and empty-as-f*ck promises with their rosy hues vanishes, what is left exposed to our vision is a hollow, rotting mimicry of a human being.

    Have you ever watched John Carpenter’s adaptation of “The Thing?” THIS is what a spath is: a Thing. It absorbs and consumes that which it does not possess, itself. It consumes love, compassion, honesty, empathy, and everything HUMAN and reprocesses those core-values and qualities to fabricate it’s very own veneer. This movie, “The Thing,” also speaks of trust issues that are created when something feigns humanity, in volumes. It’s a strong commentary even if it’s in the form of a “horror” movie. But, the correlations between the creature in the movie and what we know of spaths is absolutely and utterly life altering, once we finally get the gist of how it’s not just about what was done to me, but how spaths literally MIMIC all of the good in humanity.

    Good for you, Dorothy. Not a pleasant journey, but you’re on your way to a world of recovery, epiphanies, and balance.

    • Truthy…..I want to see the movie and the movie Skylar mentioned. I have no where to rent movies where I live! There are a couple really pathetic places……just a machine…….very limited selection. I could do the nexflix thing but it just wouldn’t be worth it. I don’t watch a lot of TV or movies but every once in a while it’s fun to watch a movie. Gone are the days of places to rent movies, at least where I am.

  3. Truthy…….oh Truthy…..thanks for the kudos. There are so many things about this that I can’t find the words for. But they are there,,,,,,somewhere in my conciousness, almost like a candy bar in a vending machine…..you see it but you can’t eat it, but you know it’s there.
    I guess it just takes time. It’s just the most sadness I’ve ever felt. I tried so hard to believe he loved me because he said the words ALL THE TIME. Well, they came to him way to easy and soon in the beginning and they only really felt real to me a couple times.. I can all but guarantee that I never knew who he really was on many levels.
    I don’t understand how someone does what they do. I think it’s been a payback for something I did, somewhere along the line…….the Vacation situation? The ,,,,,,,,,who KNOWS what he was getting me back for. It’s disgusting .

    • Another realization…….There was something about him that I didn’t envy but wanted to unite with. His masculine energy drew me in like I’ve never experienced before. Odd that he also had a feminine vibe…..that one is very hard to describe. I don’t know what it was….. feminine is as close as I can describe but thats not exactly it. But the masculine part,,,,,he had this air about him. an air of confidence. I know i wanted his protection, his strength…..but I think Im confusing that with something else?
      I know I CARE……I FEEL……that was what drinking did for me, it let me not care, to say F it. There is some kind of importance around this that i can’t get to.
      IMO……as a woman, I think I long for my polar mate. The yang to my yin. I loved everything male about him but he wasn’t real…..Horrible.

      • Dorothy,
        You are pretty much describing my spath. He was VERY masculine in every way, very muscular, very dominant. But then these little bits of femininity would show up that seemed peculiar, particularly when he was making fun of gay people, which coincidentally, he had a huge number of friends in the gay and lesbian community.

        It seemed incongruous that he would have so many gay friends and then make fun of them behind their backs, but that was just another red flag that I missed. He was having sex with gay men but using the 180 rule by showing disdain for them, just in case I suspected. The truth was, I NEVER would have suspected. Never.

        Furthermore, he was bragging to all his friends that he was cheating on me with other women, in order to cement the idea that he was hetero and they wouldn’t suspect.

        The reality, Dorothy, is that the spaths are not masculine nor feminine, they aren’t gay or straight. I wouldn’t even call them bi- because they aren’t anything. It’s always a mask. Everything about them is shallow, including their sexuality. They can flip on a dime and become whatever or whoever they need to mirror at that moment.

        So try not to base any of your opinions about what you want in a man, from your experience with the spath. None of it was real. Even your own emotions were manipulated from you, so even though those were real, the macguffins that they were based on were not real.

        • Skylar, Thank you so much……your words. They always hit the spot and are so helpful to my understanding this mess. That for me is SO important because I can easily self doubt. If there is one thing I need to see is that this whole mess was F U T I L E…………period……….for so many reasons i can’t even count.

        • Yep Dorothy, it is there intent to make our efforts futile so that we feel powerless. That’s the slime. Then this makes them feel like they have power. Almost any encounter with a spath is futile. Occasionally you can win if you are aware that they are spaths and you know how they think. But the toll it takes… it’s too much.

          • Skylar……I deffinatly had that feeling that he was being oppositional.. Thwarting my efforts and testing. Mommys house is right where he needs to be and that makes me sick to my stomach.

  4. Ancientheart, there have been spaths within the Human Condition ever since mankind discovered the concept of personal possessions (food, shelter, clan, etc.). There’s a difference between ENVY and desire. Envy is when a desire (for food, shelter, safety, acceptance) becomes pathological.

    Times were when human beings lived in smaller communities and these communities recognized a disordered person, but were able to hold them accountable in one way or another. To avoid being shunned and ousted, the predatory human beings would do whatever was required (in plain sight) to accommodate the requirements to stay. Of course, there were those times when these communities would be dictated by a leader that used cruelty, fear, and terror to get what they wanted, but I have to imagine that those dictatorships were short-lived. Once larger territories and kingdoms began to form, corruption was a given because there were too many minions and enablers to keep the absolutely insane leaders in power. Today, the entire world is rather a whole community, and the powerful have constructed a legal and legislative hierarchy that is virtually impenetrable. Any individual who steps into the arena of Law or politics that has a vision of change is going to face serious corruption, and their choices are going to be to either play the game or face certain destruction.

    I’m reading a book by Robin Cook (medical thriller author) titled, “Seizure,” along with several other books that explores what happens when a scientific discovery and process is “claimed” by a politician in an effort to save that politician’s career and life. The “favors,” negotiations, deceptions, and manipulations are clearly defined and are mind-blowing simply because these activities occur, frequently. Of course, the story line is a thrilling dramatization of a specific situation, but they are clearly part of the process. Toss an idealistic and compassionate human being into the mix of contemporary politics and legislation, and that person is going to have their ideas and altruism trampled with impunity, and all of the best intentions will be all for naught. That individual will leave that arena as a broken human being.

    The whole point of this is that spaths have ALWAYS been a factor in the Human Condition, and they always WILL be. I want to believe that educating others about predatory human beings will create a difference – I desperately “want” this and I’ll continue working on myself and in getting the “word out” about these human predators, their tactics, and personal boundaries. My concern is that our current cultural and societal structures not only “allow” predatory behaviors to escalate, but actually encourage people to abandon positive core values in lieu of greed, power, and corruption.

    Dorothy, there are many movies out there that are phenomenal commentaries and studies on the Human Condition that visually describe and/or “explain” dysfunctional situations that have actually created “Ah…HAH!” moments for me. Netflix is a terrific option because you can choose movies, have them mailed to you, and you mail them back in a prepaid provided envelope. It’s not that expensive and there’s no contract. There’s a “list” of excellent movies that would be a GREAT addition to this blog, I think. ๐Ÿ˜€

    • Truthy!That is a really good idea!! A movie list. I really detest TV for the most part and the shows I used to like have really disintegrated as well. I watched part of a movie yesterday with Susan Sarandon about a wacko mother and her teenage daughter and would like to watch the whole thing. There was a huge message in it for me.
      Ill look into the netflix thing today.
      Skylar, I think Truthy has a great idea about the movies!
      My biggest problem right now is still……..I just don’t know the truth about him and i need to to completely let go. He was a terrible actor (I think) but I am so impressionable that it turns into confusion soup in my brain, the whole thing………it’s like two years of my life, me, him, everything,,,,,were thrown into a food processor on high speed. the blade is slowing down now and things are somewhat clearer but there is this muck in the bottom that I can’t be certain or what it is, who’s issues they are, etc, etc, etc,,,,,,,,,,,
      As Skylar says, I probably wouldn’t feel this way if he wasn’t disordered, right? Like the aftermath and affects on the victim are evidence enough?

    • One of my favorite movies, Truthspeak, is Powder, about a young man who was born with incredible powers of empathy as well as intellectually far advanced. Needless to say, his intellect was what everyone was fascinated by, while his heart and his empathy were shattered by the insensitivity and egotism surrounding him.

      • I hate to be the bearer of this news but Victor Salva, who directed Powder, is a convicted child molester, speaking of Spaths. ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

        • I remember reading about that, and it really creeped me out, but thankfully it didn’t put a damper on how I felt about the movie.

  5. Sky, I identify with what you typed about hatred for a spath. Maintaining hatred is not productive, but experiencing it through an expression of anger is, IMHO, absolutely “normal.” Venting, ranting, raving, and expressing righteous anger without shame or guilt is tantamount to excising an abscess – get that venom out BEFORE it becomes an obsessive hatred.

    I used to rant and rave inside my vehicle when I was driving. I have no doubt that people who saw me ranting inside my car with my face purple and tears streaming down my face must have thought I was insane. LOL!!!! But, this was the method that I used to tell the exspath, his enablers, mutual friends, and his family members ALL about what he had done and the damages that he had caused. I still have moments when I do this, especially when I’m falling into that vortex of obsessive thinking – how UNFAIR it all is that he was able to skip away from his obligations, promises, vows, and assurances without so much as a bead of sweat forming on his brow. Once that pent up energy is spent, I’m working with a clearer mind and I’m not focused upon “fairness” or “justice,” anymore.

    Expressing that anger in a healthy and productive manner helps lead to acceptance, IMHO.

    To quote Yoda, “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Truthy, I have a visual of this!! I can so relate to my desire for fairness and justice, not in the same league as you but Im right there somewhere in the feelings no matter if it’s the same circumstances or not. I may not have lost anything material or financial but I’ve lost something…..my peace of mind for one.Most often these days it feels like I’ve lost my sanity and myself. I do feel your anger and mine. Righteous anger and disgust.

  6. Dorothy, I believe that you DO know the truth about the spath. You have the evidence. You have the facts. You have the behaviors, and you have the experiences to back up the evidence, facts, and behaviors. What is going to occur, very soon, is the phase of “acceptance.” This is when you examine the evidence, facts, and behaviors without allowing any “feelings” to interfere. Separating the emotions from the facts typically results in acceptance. There is no way, shape, form, or Divine Intervention that is going to bargain a more pleasant or acceptable set of facts. It could possibly be that you’re just not ready to entertain that acceptance, just yet – it comes for each person at a different time and under different circumstances.

    Seriously, you’re going to be okay, in due time. Just be patient with yourself and allow the steps of healing to occur when they do. Trying to force steps to occur can result in serious frustration – I know this from my own experiences. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Truthy, I was never validated as a child. Everything was so clear to me, maybe i didn’t have a full life/ love picture to interpret it through but it was so clear and it was always denied and invalidated. SO…..it is very hard for me to be 100% sure of ANYthing…..EVER! I question myself endlessly in mental loops that keep me stuck. That is what happened in this mess…..self doubt combined with pathological hope. It was the perfect storm for him to pull his deceptive twists and inconsistencies off and not be called out on the mat completely. I did call him out….many many times!! But he slippery eeled his way around, out of, under, over…..I just didn’t have the tools and i know that I wanted it to work……Right,,,,,,,I wanted it to work with a four time divorcee, alcoholic, in bankruptcy, living in his mothers basement, and with someone who is emotionally and mentally abusive…..icing on the cake,,,,,,deceptive liar. Somehow that was just going to miraculously change at the age of 47 for him…….. I just kept falling for the bull poop…..” I love you Dorothy, i will do better and be the man you want me to be, we are good together, we are a team, etc, etc, etc…….”. Inconceivable.
      And I became an unhappy “complain”er, something was always wrong…….I just wonder if i didn’t play a part in it. Probably but the part I played, IMO, was a direct result of the doubt, insecurity, distrust,,,,,gut feelings….. THAT will never be acknowledged.
      I guess i just have to accept that.
      Rori Raye says that if you don’t feel wonderful, safe, secure, adored,etc..with the man you are with, it’s not the right man! Well, sometimes i did feel adored……but then i didn’t. Sometimes it really did seem like he loved me but then no…….thats why this is all such a mental cluster F for me……
      Something was defiantly WRONG but was it pathological?? Am I over catastrophizing it? There were many times he seemed very genuine. OMG……stop the madness!!!!
      Truthy…….I need a Spath intensive! Just total intervention!!!
      Yikes!

    • Truthy, I am having moments of acceptance….kind of touching on it then questioning and doubting. It’s just so hard for me to put what i’m having to accept into the same person’s that I was with and thought I loved image in my mind. He was my faithful companion.
      I’d bet money that he is a f’up version of his father. His father was VERY successful in his life as opposed to Spath who is a total f’up and can’t walk around the block without stepping on his own di*k.
      Id bet money that the two of them had something going on……secrets………
      Any movie suggestions are welcome!

  7. I know that there is a possibility and maybe a probability that I see everything through the lens of abandonment from my babyhood and I’m concerned about how that affects my ability to be in relationships.Not only in the ways it affects my ability to act and respond but in the way it seems to cause me to tolerate bad treatment.

  8. Skylar, I’ve been sleeping a great deal more lately, and I had a dream that I was at a beautiful and very large property that seemed to have endless boundaries. There were mostly all women there, and everyone was so serene and at home, so joyful. The house was like an enormous plantation house, and an older woman who seemed to be like a “house mother” or elder invited me to stay with them and make this my home. I cried and she hugged me. I felt relieved. There was no slime there.

    I struggle here too. Sending you hugs, lots of hugs.

    • Ancientheart…..I had a vision a while back. All of us sitting on a front porch in rocking chairs, dressed in white, staring out into a huge field at sunset. I think I told Bluemosaic about it. No one is speaking in the vision…..just sitting, looking out at the field and the sunset. Maybe we should write a movie,,,,,,,? Speaking of movies!
      {{{{{ HUGS Ancientheart }}}}}}

      • That is neat, Dorothy! I don’t doubt we’re creating our own spiritual healing realm in a higher dimension as well as here in our “solid” world too. And that we have spiritual help and guidance of course ๐Ÿ™‚

        Lots of hugs coming your way too!

    • Ancient heart,
      the large property could be the vast WWW where we finally meet people who have the same sensibilities.
      Dorothy, your dream is similar, showing us dressed in white for our purity. I think there’s potential for those dreams to come true.

  9. Skylar

    I wanted to let you know I am always reading the comments posted here – just not always able to log in from my laptop to post.

    Anyway, above you said this ”
    So try not to base any of your opinions about what you want in a man, from your experience with the spath. None of it was real. Even your own emotions were manipulated from you, so even though those were real, the macguffins that they were based on were not real.”

    That is exactly right. Tonight I read an article in a magazine Marie Claire – by Kym Canter – here is a link

    http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/accidental-mistress?click=main_sr

    The writer of the story just doesn’t get it. She WANTS that fake love hat her spath offered, and by golly she thinks she’s going to find it again for real. NOT.

    • Dorothy, it only costs a few dollars to subscribe to Netflix, and you can cancel at any time.

      Here is a list of movies that I strongly recommend, to learn both about spaths and narcissists. I have learned so much from these movies. It’s not all inclusive but it’s one hell of a good start.

      1. The Sopranos (made for TV series).
      2. The Talented Mr. Ripley.
      3. Ripley’s Game.
      4. Doubt (Meryl Streep)
      5. The Bad Seed
      6. Silence of the Lambs
      7. Taxi Driver
      8. The Young Poisoners Handbook
      9. CatFish
      10. Mrs. Harris (2005) (N)
      11.We Need to Talk about Kevin
      12. Caine Mutiny (N)
      13. The Killing 1956
      14. Gaslight
      15. Rebecca (a Hitchcock Film from 1940)
      16. Body Heat
      17. There Will Be Blood
      18. Pacific Heights
      19. The Vanishing
      20. No Country For Old Men
      21.What Lies Beneath
      22. The Good Son
      23.The Brothers Bloom

      Hows that for starters??

      Hugs

      Athena

      • Athena, Thanks for the movie sugestions. I got the Netflix today! One month free trial. It was a snap! I don’t know why I didn’t do it sooner
        That’s quite a list!
        I just read the article you posted and…….jeesh……No…she is clueless! I can understand not wanting to give up on love,,,,,a relationship with a pathological lying spath is not love.
        I thought up to very recently what I felt for him was at least real even if what he said he felt for me wasn’t but now I don’t even think I loved him…..so hard to say

    • Athena,
      I read Kim’s story in Marie Claire. Poor Kim, she has learned nothing. But at least she had all her friends surrounding her so she could continue living in lala land.

      The fact that she connected her father to the story indicates that she is somewhat aware that she is drawn to the familiar empty promises. Now she just needs to see the truth about WHY they do this.

      Of all the movies that I would recommend to Kim, Brothers Bloom would be the one she might understand.

      Everyone, I know I dropped the ball when you were talking movies. Thanks for bringing it up again Athena.
      We do have a link to http://www.woncinema.blogspot.com/, where you can actually watch movies online.
      But you are saying we need to have our own list and perhaps a discussion area? Like a book club?

      Give me feedback on what you want and I’ll see if it’s possible.

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