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Psychopaths Envy Our Values. — 252 Comments

  1. Sky, I think it would be a good addition to have a “movie” discussion AND a book discussion page, perhaps.

    For me, I’m a very visual person. I also love to read, but when I “learn” things, it’s usually through visual means. “Hands-on” learning is for me, as well.

    The “list” of movies and books could have a “ratings” option, if there is one available. Also, I would suggest “disclaimers” for movies and books ONLY because some of the visuals and/or content might be uber-triggering. The movie, “We Need To Talk About Kevin,” is a phenomenally executed study in family dynamics, but it is so disturbing that it has the potential to create some serious triggering, especially for parents of disordered children. The book, “Healing The Shame That Binds You,” provided me with numerous personal epiphanies, but they came at a grievous price – the work that Bradshaw explores and the concepts associated with that work are very, very painful and (IMHO) should be undertaken with a counseling professional that specializes in trauma recovery and “inner child” work.

    I am grateful for the community of recovery that I have had over the years. I found my way to 180rule.com and familyarrested.com when I was desperately NEEDING support, guidance, and encouragement. Sometimes, the support and encouragement comes in the form of a swift kick in the backside, but that swift kick gets my attention and brings me back from places where I am better off avoiding.

    ((((((HUGS)))))) to everyone in recovery AND for those who are lurking and reading – it unfolds, slowly, to be sure. But, once that Healing Path is undertaken, it’s all “good,” in the long run.

  2. Skylar, everyone, I don’t find it very encouraging to see that they have been making movies about Spaths for decades. It’s not like people haven’t known that bad bad bad people exist in the world, you know? How is it going to be different in the future for potential victims?
    It’s one of those things you kind of know and can only kind of know until it happens to you I think.
    A friend of mine went through this type of situation for close to 30 years but didn’t know exactly what he was untill I started my quest for truth and now she is just blown away. At least now, hopefully, she can stop berating herself for “being so stupid” and “not leaving sooner”. She didn’t know!!! ๐Ÿ™

    • Dorothy,
      imagine my surprise when I realized I had been watching movies about spaths my whole life and NEVER figured out the similarities!! Once my eyes were opened, it was like, “Wow! Even in movies, they are all alike!”

      I was reading the biblical story of Jacob and his twin Esau online. As it turns out, this is simply a story about a dysfunctional family. http://bible.org/article/jacob

      The mom and dad, Rebecca and Issac, never talk. She has her favorite, Jacob. He has his favorite, Esau.

      They plot against each other, they team up against each other, they backstab. Rebecca manipulates the lazy Issac. Well, if he wasn’t so lazy, maybe she wouldn’t have to! Jacob,the younger sibling, first steals his brother’s birth right and then his blessing. He does this by deceiving the blind, old Issac with the help of his plotting mother.

      Rebecca’s father was, I think, Issac’s cousin. The whole family is like trailer trash!! lol! Jerry Springer would’ve had a field day with them.

      I’ve known this story my whole life but I just never saw it from this perspective. Whoever wrote it was making a point about how dysfunction in a family creates more dysfunction and suffering. That whole point went over my head until just recently.

      Once you’ve experienced it, you start to see the pattern everywhere. The scales fall from your eyes. People are all the same everywhere and they always have been. It’s a struggle to be different and to purify yourself from the contagion of family slime. That’s what the bible is really about.

      • Sky, the Bible is FULL of stories of dysfunctional families, look at King David’s son Abasolom, a P for sure, and David enabled him to get by with it until eventually there was civil war with thousands of dead, and when abasolom was killed David mourned for HIM, the son who had tried to have him killed and take over the kingdom. David’s general came to him and said (Paraphrased) get up and THANK these people who sacrificed their sons to keep your kingdom, not weep and wail for this no good son of yours.” David saw that the genral was RIGHT and did get up, wash his face and thank the people.

        David’s son Solomon was a “wise” man but yet he allowed his love for women, and his hundreds of wives and thousands of concubines was his downfall. Proving that no matter how smart or wise you are you can be led astray if you allow yourself to be lured by your own lusts and desires, rather than live by the “do right” rule.

      • Skylar…….Ok…..that is soooo funny! Biblical Jerry Springer trailer trash. ROTFLMAO!!!! You nailed it!! LOL
        Get Jim Baker or TammyFae (sp) to host the show!!

      • Oxy and Dorothy,
        I had forgotten much of the story of David and Absolom, so I refreshed my memory online. OMG. That whole family was a disaster! One brother rapes his half sister and her full-brother kills him for revenge. That’s just the beginning. The story goes that, the rapist is infatuated with his half-sister’s beauty but after he rapes her, he hates her more than he ever “loved” her… if that’s not a spath, I don’t know what is.

        • Yea, Skylar, full of dysfunctional family stories, but the difference between David and his P sons was that when his bad behavior was pointed out he TRULY REPENTED, and was referred to as “a man after God’s own heart.” Not I think because he was perfect because he sure wasn’t, but HE REPENTED AND CHANGED HIS WAYS, and I think it is a good example for us that we don’t have to be without “sin” or be “perfect” but we learn from our mistakes and bad choices and CHANGE OUR WAYS.

          David did enable Absolom who was “high and mighty” hiring trumpeters to go before him when he traveled, to show what a big shot he was, but then he stayed by the palace door, and when the common people would bow to him, he would lift them up, give them the “love bomb” and say “well, if I WAS KING I would give you justice” and he tricked the people, or some of them, and eventually waged civil war in which h e died.

          Absalom is a perfect example of a psychopath, and David is a perfect example of an enabler with him. The outcome is predictable too.

          But there are many descriptions of dysfunctional and psychopathic families. Some good reading there especially in the old testament to learn about Ps.

  3. Dorothy, I’ve typed this before, but it bears repeating: spaths have ALWAYS existed, continue to exist, and will be a part of the Human Condition until mankind goes the way of the dinosaurs.

    Shakespeare wrote epic portrayals and studies of extreme dysfunction, deceit, and crazy-making. Dante’s “Inferno” discusses evil from his perspective with Betrayal being the most heinous of sins – even a victim of murder finds an end to their suffering, whereas one who experiences Betrayal suffers that damage every day of their life. Homer wrote of Odysseus’ harrowing experiences and, although his work was believed to have been based upon mythology, anthropologists have confirmed that there was, indeed, a person and a voyage – the explanations (Sirens, etc.) for “natural” phenomena were laced in a shroud of mythology.

    When the concept of “MY mammoth, MY harvest, MY mate, MY tools” crystalized within the human psyche, ENVY formed. Yes, lions, wolves, hawks, and other predators protect “their” food kills, but there is a hierarchy that allows for all members of the group to partake in nutrition, but they don’t have the capacity to ENVY. They only know that they are hungry and want to eat.

    Human predators operate on ENVY – they covet what they do not have, cannot have, and never WILL have. And, it’s always been like that. With the ability to think, feel, reason, problem-solve, and conceptualize comes a danger of disorder.

    From the movie, “Aliens,” Ripley compares the corporate sleaze against the behaviors of the murderously aggressive xenomorphs, “You don’t see them screwing each other for a percentage.”

    With regard to “being so stupid,” I still struggle with that on occasion, and I literally have to remind myself that I did NOT know what I didn’t know. Meaning that deception can be so successful that NOBODY could “know” that another person is a predator in every situation.

    • With regard to the question about how a difference can be made, I throw this idea out there just for consideration: coalition and conferences.

      If we search, online, for information about sociopaths, there are tens of THOUSANDS of websites and blogs that clearly indicate that hundreds of thousands of human beings in the U.S., alone, have encountered sociopathic entanglements. In nearly all situations, target victims had no idea that they were “dancing with the devil,” so to speak, UNTIL they were dismissed and discarded. Some of the perpetrators were just toxic individuals, and others (like the man in the link to the Marie Claire article that Skylar posted) clearly indicate someone who appears to be very high in sociopathic traits.

      If these people who have been so victimized could be gathered together to voice their experiences and to work together to educate, inform, and demand legislative changes, it may be possible to have at least a minor impact. But, such an endeavor would be fraught with dangers and pitfalls. There would be the dangers associated with those who speak out too soon after their experiences when the emotions and feelings aren’t yet separated from facts. Speaking to the media via radio, television, and newspapers would require intensive training so that those in recovery will, again, be able to separate the emotions from their experiences – those of us recovery are TYPICALLY viewed as over-emotional and bitter rather than human beings who were deliberately and maliciously targeted and dismantled. Professionals within all fields would have to be WILLING to put their egos aside and speak truthfully and honestly, using layman’s terms.

      I would be keen on seeing organized conferences with seminars and speakers, especially with regard to survivor recovery. Sort of like mini intensive counseling seminars. Yeah, I know that I’m dreaming, but it’s a good dream, nevertheless. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Truthspeak,
        I believe that humanity’s perspective has to be changed before any of this information gets through.

        We frequently discuss WHY children aren’t taught to recognize abuse early on. Imagine if all children could recognize abuse and turn their parents in for it. Everyone would be an orphan as soon as they could talk.

        Instead, we are taught to trauma bond because that is what makes good citizens, people who don’t make waves.

        I think that the answer is to teach people to recognize cognitive dissonance. This isn’t easy, but if it’s taught early enough, around age 12, then I think there is potential to make a difference. Like psychopaths, normal people are in denial too. We don’t see what we don’t want to see. It makes life so much easier to let someone else be responsible, doesn’t it?

  4. With what appears to be a legal and political system, at least in the U.S., that is designed to fail most victims of psychopaths – especially the poor and those made poor by psychopaths – in this “pay to play” country which it seems to have unfortunately become, making inroads into that corrupt ego-based system via organized religious and spiritual movements and activities which are kept as slime-free as possible could go a long way to tip the balance in favor of the heart and help protect the more vulnerable. In my dream, a new currency would be created and equitably controlled and distributed to automatically supply each individual family with their basic survival needs`so that fear would be removed from the survival game and mothers could be home to love and raise their children and families would come first. Every human and animal would be provided for basic needs. That would remove at least some of the envy and fear-ego based conflicts. Monetizing anything or anyone would come with consequences.

    You’ve given me lots of ideas, Truthspeak. Dreams are precious, and so is our imagination, your dreams have power.

  5. Sky, I agree 100%. There are ways and means to “educate” the general public about cog/diss, faulty systems of beliefs, etc. A friend of mine was working in a parochial school kindergarten, and there was a poster on one of the walls that stated, “Everyone deserves a second chance.” This gal has just emerged from an abusive relationship and is beginning to identify core-issues of trauma during her childhood. She stared at the words that were printed as some sort of mandate, and her stomach turned over. She knows the truth, at this point.

    Cog/diss is a heavy factor, and I agree with the trauma factor, as well. I’m a product of trauma and I can clearly see – CLEARLY see – how my childhood traumas created an entire lifetime of dysfunctional choices, decision, and actions that were solely based upon fears. It sometimes takes a lifetime to even identify the trauma, let alone work through it and rebuild one’s “Self” into a healthier individual.

    Ancientheart, there are so many nuances in human behavior that it’s mind-boggling, at the very least. But, one thing remains a static constant: power corrupts. Whether it’s power in the legislature, courtroom, or pulpit, I can envision how challenging it would be for a person with strong core values to remain pure of focus and altruism when they are bombarded with bribery, coercion, sexual advances, etc. I can’t even imagine a solution to this, as it’s been a part of the Human Condition since time began.

    I DO have dreams, but I don’t hold any expectations of my dreams, anymore. Dreams (for me, personally) are similar to wishes. And, I know that wishful thinking results in disappointment where I’m concerned. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Truthy, The gal that had just emerged from an abusive relationship and second chances……..Im thinking in an abusive relationship, by the time one gets to the point and is actually able to leave an abusive relationship, the second, third, fourth, fifth, etc, etc, etc, chances have long ago been used up. I love George Simon, PhD’s article about “contrition”

      http://www.manipulative-people.com/contrition-behavior-and-therapy/

      I’ve posted that link before but I think it’s worth re-posting.

  6. This website has helped to give me insight into the insane minds of these malevolent weaklings. Those who envy want TO BE envied. Does my absolute revulsion and repulsion to these slimes attract them? I know that they really have nothing to offer me and they know (I hope) that I want nothing to do with any of them. Judging by their latest tactics it looks like their “ringleader” or “handler” is getting them to do things that indicate he or she or it wants to see his/her/its own emptiness and soullessness echoed by me.

    They are groups of community based harassers like east german stasi agents. There is some very sick and malevolent nut job that is telling these goons to perpetrate different psychological warfare tactics and the pathetic spath behind it is really getting off on using these idiots like toys or action figures. Since this envious, sick spath has no humanity it has no way of understanding how I feel. It is always orchestrating ridiculous tactics and street theater scenarios that don’t bother me at all BUT this dumb spath really thinks that they do. No ability to relate and make even semi-accurate assessments concerning how I feel.

    Just like how the grunt spaths who perpetrate the tactics usually always have to look at my face to see if there’s any sort of negative or hurt looking facial expression. I wear sunglasses all the time so that these sick idiots won’t be able to see if I looked and saw their little tactics or not. LOL. No pay off. No gratification. However that doesn’t stop these spaths from IMAGINING how I felt. It doesn’t stop them from thinking they know how I feel or what I think. The cruel, weak and sadistic nincompoops are solely getting their gratification from their own twisted spath imaginations that they confuse with reality.

    I have no idea who the main stalking spath behind all of this is but it is redundantly obvious that this walking nut museum is very envious of me and gives me little clues throughout the day in various ways that it wants to see and hear its own envy and emptiness reflected in me. Is the spath trying to somehow justify or validate its own envy and soullessness by trying to get someone that it envies to somehow become the same way?

    • Hi Hollowattention,
      It’s pretty common for a psychopath to use minions in a scapegoating attempt. That’s why it’s sometimes referred to as “mobbing”.

      What you describe reminds me of what I went through in the last couple of years with my spath. I could see all the attempts by my neighbors to scapegoat me, but I couldn’t figure out WHY. At the time, I was very naive and didn’t understand psychopaths. The neighbors’ behavior just seemed ridiculous to me and they were easy to maneuver around. It never, ever would have occurred to me that the man I trusted the most, was behind the mobbing and that it was all an attempt to kill me or force me to kill myself.

      The psychopath, when attacking their victim, will usually position themselves as the victim’s best friend and soulmate. If you are looking for the person controlling the minions, look at those closest to you.

      Yes, the spath envies you and wants to turn you into them. They want your admiration and yet it will never be enough for them. He or she wants you to envy him or her.

      Furthermore, this person knows that when you finally do realize that it was them behind the attack, it will shake your world to it’s very foundations. They think that you will lose your ability to trust anyone because you had trusted this person so completely.

      To figure out who the uberspath is, you will have to give some people rope. In other words, let them think you are vulnerable and watch them go for your jugular. That’s how you will know.

      It will hurt when you finally realize who they are but at least you will know that you can protect yourself. You will have learned to trust yourself.

      • Hi Skylar. The spaths have been referred to as “social snipers” and consequently after so many years of this I don’t have a social life or any friends. This is partly due to the fact that I’m a reclusive person and not someone who desires being in large crowds or belonging to groups of fair-weather friends and acquaintances. The rest of it is because of psychological warfare, the spaths deliberately conditioning me to be leery of people and having an aversion to them. Being intentionally built up and then slammed down to make me unable and unwilling to trust people having been methodically betrayed time and time again. Also being slandered to people behind my back.

        It’s been like a rerun over and over. I’ll start going to a place like a community college for instance and at first everyone there is normal and passively indifferent to me. After a few months however they suddenly change and start paying me unwarranted negative attention and perpetrating various psychological warfare tactics such as neuro-linguistic programming and anchoring. The hidden “uberspath” behind the scenes getting these people to treat me like that by deceiving them, slandering me and bribing them or whatever the cockroach does.

        I once even had some christians from a church called azusa come to my door and tell me that “the devil” is “trying to separate you from the herd” and that I should go to their church so that I wouldn’t be alone and by myself without any help or support. It was like they knew my situation which made me suspicious of them. But since nobody is close to me and the only people in my life are my family members it’s a bit of a different situation.

        The latest incident is that the day before yesterday I was attempting to post comments on youtube about a group and website called Freedom Force International. It was on a youtube page with a video called “Rep. Joe Garcia (D-FL): Communism Works (Seriously!)” While signed in all of my comments were showing up but when signed out and checking the page none of the comments I posted were there.

        So nobody that I replied to ever got my messages at all. It’s a violation of my freedom of speech and it’s total inequality because all of the other people posting there are having their comments show up but I can’t have mine show up as well. The “uberspath” is cyberstalking and silencing me.

        Hiding everything I’m trying to say from everyone. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this sub animal vermin is reading this right now in real time as I’m typing it. To silence me like that is illegal and a crime. When it involves suppressing comments about Freedom Force International directed at anti-communist American citizens it would appear that the “uberspath” is a little darth cockroach dictator with an agenda to force everyone into a totalitarian hell.

        So I’ve been trying to send emails with the screenshots of the irrefutable evidence to the people at Freedom Force International to alert them to what is going on and so far I haven’t gotten a single response. At one point the people at FFI told me they had sent me emails that I never received. So the uberspath slime is also intercepting and stealing my emails from and to. These are a few of the many reasons that I think this uberspath is actually some sort of psychopathic government intelligence agent who has some sick personal obsession with me and not just your ordinary guttersnipe cockroach. I loved the comparison of spaths with 2d cartoon characters by the way. Classic and so true.

      • hollowattention,
        It’s possible that your uberspath works in some position of authority, because spaths are always looking for power. Or they could be someone who simply manipulates those in authority, like my exspath does. He looks for cops to corrupt and homeland security agents to turn into his minions. A real spath has no problem finding those who are like him, willing to use their power against an innocent.

        It sounds like the uberspath knows you very well. That’s why it’s important that you stop reacting emotionally to these attacks. If it turns out that you have to stop engaging with certain people for a while, then so be it. You have to be boring for the spath to lose interest in you. Find boring people to hang around with. You’ll find that these people are not as boring as they seemed at first. They just happen to be people who don’t draw attention to themselves. They may be more humble than the people you are usually drawn to.

        Also, try using hushmail and also a proxy IP address. That may help keep you hidden from the spath for a while. You can also use your phone to get online by tethering it to your computer. That will get you a different IP address too.

        Yes, they are 2 dimensional cartoon characters, but I like your own metaphor: cockroaches.
        Because they run when you shine a light on them and they spread their toxic bacteria everywhere they go.

    • Hollowattention, welcome to 180rule, and you pose a number of very good questions.

      With regard as to “why” psychopaths choose specific targets, I can only speak from my own experiences and observations. Without going into a long, drawn-out description of my experiences, suffice it to say that I’ve had a lifetime of “experience” with spaths and very toxic people, and I’ve been studying psychopathic behaviors for almost 20 years.

      ****NOTE: my use of CAPS is intended for emphasis, only, and not to be interpreted or construed as “online yelling,” under any circumstance.****

      What I have discovered is that I had multiple things that alerted the toxic and disordered to certain strengths and vulnerabilities that I had that could be manipulated and warped to their benefit. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I was easily manipulated or stupid – quite the contrary. I was steadfast in my beliefs and I’m intelligent and resourceful.

      As Sky mentioned, these people ENVY what they did not, can not, and never will have, whether it’s character strengths or tangible properties. And, whomever has whatever it is that they envy is held in contempt – utter contempt. The disordered individual’s reaction to others who have something that they envy is actually visibly recognized AS contempt.

      So, back to where my experiences are concerned, these types of people observed me, first, to determine what my personal “needs,” strengths, and vulnerabilities were, and then tailored their treatment of me to fit their agenda. Whether they were setting me up for failure at my job, or whether they were setting me up for a long-con or abusive relationship, THEY tuned in on what I gave them.

      For instance, the first abusive exspath used my own loyalty and belief in commitment to bind me to him. Then, the dynamics of abuse took over and the rest is history. The SECOND exspath used my “need” for safety, security, and fidelity to bait, lure, and hook me so that he could access my personal finances. These are just two examples of a lifetime of experiences.

      What it all boiled down to, for me, was finally accepting that I needed to rewire my thinking, build reasonable beliefs, and rewire my thinking processes. And, I’m doing the work with a strong and competent counseling therapist, but it’s an ongoing journey, and it can get scary, at times.

      How to separate our emotions from our interactions is probably one of the most valuable skills that we can learn. The next thing that I learned was that I don’t “need” to seek approval or validation from any other human being in order to “be okay.” This belief was the result of childhood trauma, which is a whole different discussion.

      So…………yeah…………watch, observe, and come to the point of acceptance that these people DO exist in every walk of life – they are not all behind bars, and most of these people are never even charged with a crime. They simply are a part of the Human Condition, and our task is to learn the symptoms and avoid them, whenever possible, or how to interact with them, safely, if there is no other option.

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