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More Thoughts About the Role of Anger — 97 Comments

  1. Dramatized,
    Lloyd deMause is one of my favorite historians. I’ve read a bunch of his stuff, but I don’t think I had read that one. Yeah, it’s unreal huh?

    We have turned a blind eye to the reality that child abuse has been rampant throughout human history. It has been horrific and it has been THE NORM. deMause and Alice Miller are two of the very few writers who address this aspect of human history.

    Psychopaths are everywhere and child abuse is the reason why.

    • Oh no Dramatized! you broke NC?
      I’m sorry you slipped. It happens, but you can start NC again and start getting that slime off of you. Hopefully you found him repulsive enough this time that you won’t forget and you’ll stay clear of that abuse.

      • Dramatized,
        They do hate their mothers, in the same way that they hate you and me. We were kind to them, we gave them everything we could and all we got was a dirty diaper in return. So we asked them to grow up and they resent us for that. They feel entitled to NOT grow up and WE should take responsibility for them. The question is, WHY don’t they hate someone who was never kind to them at all? Why do they hate us more than they hate a complete stranger? Because we expelled them from paradise. Just like mommy expelled them from the womb. Once you are kind to a spath, all you can expect is abuse and vengeance for not accepting the abuse. It’s just because they’re still stuck in their infantile state.

        • That comment was awesome Skylar!

          Something that comes to mind about the child abuse histories of psychopaths – there are also the trust fund babies and others coddled by wealth who never leave the womb – that is a common breeding ground for psychopaths.

        • Ancient heart,
          both my spath brother and spath sister were spoiled by my parents. They got whatever they wanted, whereas my older sister and I got ignored. But that doesn’t mean that spath bro and spath sis were not abused.

          My parents are experts at emotional abuse and manipulation. The narcissist’s “golden child” is as often abused as he/she is praised. It’s just another form of abuse. They get put on the pedestal and then they get knocked down. The “idealize, devalue and discard” for them is even more common than for the scapegoat. At least we never really expected to be loved.

          • Dramatized,
            parents like yours and mine will switch favorites too. They like to pit their kids against each other.

            I’m glad that you are having success with finding a therapist. I hope good things are ahead for you from now on.

          • I miss comments at times, I need to look more thoroughly at the sidebar than to look at the bottom of a page for the most recent comments.

            I stopped having anything to do my mother shortly after my sister’s death about 15 years ago. It was then I had some scary and painful revelations that she was indeed very evil – would call her a psychopath now without hesitation.

            My parents were married for 10 years. I had sister, older by one year. During their marriage they split us, my mother made me her favorite and my father made my sister his. Each parent all but ignored the other child and made them each scapegoats during their marriage which often had the effect of forcing my sister and I to take sides and to divide us as siblings, sometimes in the extreme. It was not a family, it was a war camp. Both parents were alcoholics, real dark circus it was.

            After my parents divorced, my mother did a 180 and turned me into the family scapegoat, pouring her negative projections of herself into my head as her personal whipping post and trash receptacle while attaching her “perfect” narcissistic self to my poor sister because she was so pretty and was growing into a beautiful young woman. Mother had always been jealous of my sister’s natural beauty and competed with her even when she was a small child.

            Our mother competed with us relentlessly, and manipulated us on an individual basis as well as divided us against one another so in the end Mother would receive the lion’s share of attention in the household. The evil child-mother LOL!

            Our father was so abusive we were terrified of him, and after our parents divorced we were afraid to visit him but were forced to by our mother so she could get rid of us and be the mostly absentee mother she wanted to be. Our father actually had cleaned up his act, and although he did unspeakable things he was not an evil man. Our mother despised him and did everything she could to alienate us from him, which because of his past abuse was easy to do, and so he estranged himself from us girls mostly out of self-preservation, and rebuilt his life.

            I was in the middle of an abusive relationship with a psychopath during the period I stopped all contact with my mother, and 3 or 4 years later I left that relationship.

            I don’t believe in the “blood is thicker than water” thing: if a parent is bad news, it’s bye bye for me. The parent stuff is the hardest relationship to process and clear up.

            What drew the 2007 psychopath that destroyed my animals’ lives, my business, and still obsesses with me 6 years later? Do I hold hatred or unconscious rage toward my mother, and was looking for an unconscious scapegoating in another, or looking to “fix” childhood? No. I had emancipated myself from my past and found my purpose and joy in healing animals which was successful.

            My mistake was to believe the psychopath, and there were moments which my instincts sensed something was not quite right but I chose not to take my momentary doubts seriously. That was my responsibility and I learned a very grave lesson from that. But in my own defense, I had never encountered such cunning and pure evil.

          • Ancient Heart,
            I don’t know what drew the 2007 spath to you, except perhaps, your goodness. Evil is attracted to goodness. They envy it and want to suck it out of the world.

            The spath saw that you wanted to help animals. So she mirrored you, so you would allow her inside and then she used that opportunity to sabotage you. It’s the typical spath ploy. The only defense against it, is to recognize it and to maintain boundaries.

  2. I just read the article. I don’t think I have words to describe my horror and disgust.

    And I don’t think the game hasn’t changed much since when it’s all said and done. Humans may have toned down the physical brutality of children in the last few decades but only found other methods to abuse “useless eaters” which may be more covert but not any less destructive. And as homo sapiens continue to scapegoat and wage war on all other life on Earth as well, the race toward extinction appears inevitable and unconsciously desired. Heaven is going to be very uncrowded.

    • Ancient Heart,
      exactly. Same song, different verse.
      Abuse is hidden and when it can no longer be hidden, it puts on a new disguise.

      Like many spaths, my exspath knew he could never hit me. If he did, I would recognize that as abuse. He would be labeled abusive. Everyone would know. So instead, he lied, swindled, cheated. He abused me emotionally and financially. This went under my radar, because society had never taught me to recognize it as abuse.

      In the same way, society continues to hide its scapegoat mechanism inside institutions of power and authority. Frankly, all we have to do to find that mechanism is to look at ANY institution of power and authority, there you will find it hiding somewhere. It’s the human condition.

      But does it HAVE to be?

      • Skylar, when I read Rose Of The World, the author Daniel Andreev described what he referred to as the demon seed which one of satan’s minions implanted in homo sapiens by a coupling of a positive feminine force with an evil masculine force (I’d have to find the exact wording from his article to quote it), it makes sense to me that humans possess the potential and that the demon seed exists in nearly all humans. If the seed is never watered and given soil, however, of course it dies. No, I believe evil never was intended and that it never had to be. But with God’s gift to everyone of free will, the rest of course is history.

      • Ancient Heart,
        I tried reading that Rose of the World article. wow, it was too much for me. Maybe I have to be in a different mind set. I may try again later.

        Personally I think that shame was the demon seed. Without it, we wouldn’t have evil because evil is shame in disguise.

        • It was an intensely heavy read for me and yet nowhere else have I found in words so many of my inner knowings and feelings affirmed, although I’m too spiritually young to comprehend a great deal of it. Nothing doesn’t make sense to me about Rose Of The World, it’s that the terminology, names used, are very foreign, and I wasn’t open to the treatise when I first lit upon it about 2(?) years ago for that reason. It’s a treatise that is a reference and guiding post for me now. I know I will never understand it all in my lifetime, that’s for sure.

  3. Just days ago my Facebook account, which I had only opened 4 months ago, was hacked by the psychopath. During the hacking, the P sent a friend request through my account to a woman who is a spath mother figure to the P. I was familiar with the spath mother figure and had ceased all contact with her as well as all others on the Internet in January 2009. I had to close the email account and Facebook account. God knows what else she did while having got into my account, but her m.o. for the past 6 years has been to impersonate me and set up incidents and frame me, and so there is no doubt she inflicted much damage for the period of time she had hacked the account. I don’t know how long she had been there prior to my having seen the friend request to the spath mother figure last Sunday. And undoubtedly she copied the photo profile and has made a Facebook account to impersonate me.

    To top things off, my computer became infected with malware after I closed the Facebook account and no longer works. This will be the 4th computer the P has destroyed since 2007 by sending viruses or malware to it.

    I know the P possesses some skills to perform cybercrimes but I believe she mainly pays others to do it for her and then instructs them what to do. The P is very rich so has no trouble finding minions.

    Yesterday I contacted the police dept. where the psychopath maintains one of her residences, and reported the hacking and the perp to an officer. I have no way to prove the incident was performed by the P, and because she pays others as well it’s that much harder to nail her. But I was able to talk with a police officer, describe as briefly as I could the past 6 years of stalking, and the police contacted her. She of course denied any knowledge of the hacking, but left clues about her knowledge of something and then spun the story to police. They did tell her that I wanted no contact with her, and gave me an incident report.

    I filed an earlier police report with their agency about a year or so ago but the record is on the computer that was sent the malware so I have to get it repaired and hope my files can be saved. Meanwhile, thankfully I have a spare computer I can use. The earlier police report did not involve their contacting her, they only made a report about the stalking on my behalf and made a record or incident report.

    I felt a small sense of comfort knowing the police contacted her to expressly tell her I wanted no contact. I also informed the police that I know I have not been the only victim.

    • Hurray for you Ancient Heart, for taking the P by the horns and calling the cops on her.

      I got your message that you had submitted the comment twice, but I only see it once. I think it’s okay.

      • It at least provides a trail of documentation which shows my intent. Very likely the psychopath will counter with identical but reversed victimization scripts with even more fervor than ever, since she has always reversed the victim role from the beginning.

        I read a couple of articles about women who were stalked by psychopaths and fought back to restore their lives, and even forged new pathways to help other victims. Alexis Moore, Carla Franklin, and Mai Xiong. I will post links to their stories as soon as I locate them. They are very inspirational women.

  4. Here are the links I mentioned:



    I’ve come to realize, at least for me, that it’s very much a two-pronged effort to restore my life as much as possible from being haunted by parasitical demonic humans: a battle on our three dimensional realm as well as knowledge that our spiritual selves are being attacked. I have been saying silent prayers which has been very helpful. I do believe that some, or even many, psychopaths are possessed partially by negative energies which can account for some of them being so extraordinarily devious and cunning. Therefore, prayer for God’s protection is critical.

    • I see it this way, D2. If you know you’re putting your hand on a stove that is going to burn you, whether it’s first, second or third degree burns makes no difference.

  5. Speaking of anger, fear and powerlessness, I spent about a year posting very sporadically on a message board which appeared friendly and professional, engaging mostly for the purpose of creating a positive experience after what I had experienced for several years. I will just say that the prevalence of female psychopaths is truly unnerving, and I’ve pretty well thrown in the towel LOL. Technology seems to have let them all out of their closets and given them near unlimited opportunities to try to infect and drain others.

  6. Ancient Heart,
    I couldn’t agree more, but it’s nothing new. I’ve experienced it in the work place and at school, it’s just envy. The internet just makes it easier to spot, IMO, because their words hang there, in black and white, for all to see. The WTF? moments are there forever. LOL!

  7. Below are some key tidbits from some the psychopath’s anonymous dialogue describing and projecting her own pathology and showing her true state of existence (there are reams of this, of course). Nothing posted discloses identifying information:

    “General comments to ___. First of all, you’re right in theory, but the tragic thing is there are hundreds, if not thousands, of “____s” all over the country. Whether by virtue of compulsion or unsatiable need for attention (maybe both) the country could be littered with the carcasses of horses and other species, as this prediliction is not limited to equine collector, as you no doubt already know all too well.

    “It seems to me that it has been nothing short of an heroic effort to inform those supporters you speak of, but they either have the same collector’s gene and live vicariously through those that are actually collectors, or they’re just flat out terminally stupid… Those that are the biggest enablers don’t get that co-dependent, blind-faith aspect of their symbionic relationship with this operator.

    “That very unpleasant cherrie character is probably among the worst I’ve witnessed as far as blind faith is concerned, wherein she admits to not having visited the operation, not even being personally acquainted with the operator, claims to not even be a “supporter” of the operation, although I’m not sure if that’s in the “moral support” context of financial support. Yest she persistently belittles and actually insults those that are on the “other side”…for precisely the same thing. Not having been there, not knowing the operator, not being a supporter, and so on. And the bandwagon once again becomes heavily laden with emotional and generous riders. It really is rather tragic. And additionally, the cycle continues, and the heart of winter has yet to set… Yes, I see this operation as an atrocity just waiting to happen, and mark my words, if it continues as is, there will be bodies littering the place.”

    (Above, the psychopath under anonymity created the “cherrie” character she described and used it on a different forum; the full username she created was a cryptic reference to a username I once had used in an attempt to “create” me elsewhere as a fragment of her pathology in a sick symbiotic code, then went back to her fake ID to criticize the fake “me” she fabricated.)

    Another post:

    “Concerning the inquisition to which you were so rudely subjected, I am more and more convinced that this person is committed to nothing but shifting blame from herself. When doing so to someone completely undeserving, it comes from raging envy. I take comfort in the fact she persistently references that she is laughing her arse off, and do so hope that she actually will, as she finds such great humor in the most perverse and rude manner in all things that seem tomake her feel better about herself. That must be a great challenge, but regardless, I hope she does indeed laugh her arse off in the most literal manner and without the ability to sit properly and hammer her keyboard (or the library’s) with her literal spew, she’ll find something more useful and constructive to do with her miserable existence.”

    One more for fun:

    “…I must admit that I get perverse pleasure at the thought of her head spinning like the kid in the Exorcist when somebody crosses her. It’s sort of a projection mechanism developed after years and years of being unable to kick the asses of people… I can just see it. The local library computer and this raging female spluttering and spitting and turning red to purple because some “anonymous bitch” told her she is full of crap.”

    The last two comments were about me. This is a woman LOADED with money, well past middle age, who’s been masquerading on the Internet with a quiet and unobtrusive facade for several years as an animal advocate. All the while scripting the demise of vulnerable animals to litter the world with their carcasses. She’s truly a Hitler to the animal realm.

    There are recurrent references over the years to human violence to the head or head-related activities projected onto the target such “head spinning,” “blowing her brains out.” These anonymous rantings I found two years after she destroyed my business but continued to stalk and engineer incidents on the internet. It wasn’t hard to spot her; the main giveaway was her misspelling and other linguistic patterns because she never conducted conversations with me except by email, pretending to be a busy and successful person who couldn’t be reached by phone.

    I am certain that hoarding of any kind is a symptom of psychopathy, probably with rare or no exceptions.

    I thought this would be interesting or possibly helpful to others because it reveals a psychopath unmasked. Their real selves and existence are indeed a hell, not something pitiable but something truly demonic in nature that has no connection to or with the living.

    • ancientheart, thanks for this info, enlightening and frightening for me. As I fear I just broke away from spath into the grasp of another very disordered mask wearer. The hoarding here is beyond comprehension. An absolute hateful attitide, did not show itself until I was a captive. This demonic behavior is killing me. She does it to people in stores or whenever she can be controlling and miserable! I could see her behind the behavior you write about, and is an animal advocate. Not to mention a christian! The pastor at church said they still loved me, even though she was my sister! I feel like I jumped out of the frying pan right into the fire! I really need a break from the insanity! This site helps me so much as I know others have been thru the insanity!

      • Hi Soulsister. This site and everyone here have helped me a great deal too.

        When I realized that was HER, the whole Pandora’s box opened up. And I exposed her on one occasion, which sent the psychopath, who was already on a killing mission unbeknownst to me, into further destructive rage. The goody-two-shoes masks that she wears are pure coverups.

        Whatever situation you found yourself in, I hope you found or made a path to get out and stay out.

        I pretty much whittled down all the endless varieties of masks to mother and/or child dynamics. If a seed from this inescapable and necessary dynamic which is the foundation of life doesn’t grow into an autonomous individual who can balance the mother/child dynamic, i.e., learn to introject both of these beings in a positive way and combine them with a healthy autonomous self which forms one’s “holy trinity,” then all you get are games, projections, religions, and other unworkable substitutes for the real thing.

        I’m not being critical of anyone who has religious interests and lifestyles, I feel many people benefit from having such guideposts and there is positive to it. The shaming and destructive side of religion is well known too.

      • Soulsister,
        It sounds like your church is your support too. You are so lucky to have that to lean on. So many of us haven’t been able to find support from our churches and some survivors have even been further persecuted by church leaders.

        I’m sorry your sister has turned out to be a disappointment — I can SO relate to that. Since you’re stuck as her captive, the only thing I can recommend is the gray rock method: don’t feed her any emotions. Some people, for whatever reason, LOVE drama and as long as you give them drama, they’ll keep persecuting you. Cut that source of supply off do not react to her drama with more drama. She’ll keep trying and she’ll keep pushing the limits, but give her firm boundaries and she’ll eventually be retrained not to mess with you.

  8. Ancient Heart,
    The tone of the writer sounds familiar. I have read the rants of a raging narcissist (guy) and there is something similar about them. I can’t put my finger on it, it’s a tone of superiority, I guess.

    I don’t know about hoarding being a symptom. My ex-spath, a pure, primary spath, was not a hoarder at all. Nothing had any value to him, he lived on the bare necessities to maintain the mask. Yet, I do know a secondary spath who is a hoarder. I must say though, that the secondary spath has almost every other cluster A, B and C PD. My spath sister is a hoarder, but not my spath brother.

    What is most fascinating to me, is your spath’s targets: helpless animals. She must be truly psychopathic to envy unwanted, abandoned animals.

    Many psychopaths target children. They envy the little ones who are treasured and loved. When a child gets attention, it negates the narcissist’s existence, because it seems unfair to the narcissist that a mere child should get more love and attention than he/she does.

    In your case, the psychopath felt that mere animals were getting more attention than they deserved. Her rage and her projections point toward destroying the animals as well as creating horror for those who dared to care.

    She envies the animals for the attention they get, isn’t that the most pathetic thing you’ve ever heard?

    It reminds me of Andres Breivik, who slaughtered 69 children because he was envious of the attention they were getting. His manifesto was all about Muslims and other immigrants but he killed fellow Norwegians.

    Here’s an essay about him and a quote from that essay:


    In his recent book Le Sacrifice inutile, Paul Dumouchel suggests that modern society has created a new category of victims: “victims of nobody, individuals against whom no one has committed any offense.” When the bonds of solidarity that characterize traditional communities wither away, some people just fall through the cracks. They are the victims of nobody in particular and of everybody in general. More precisely, they are “the victims of generalized indifference. An indifference that must not be construed as a psychological disposition of certain agents, but as a new institutional arrangement.

    In short, spaths can’t stand to be ignored or regarded with indifference. It bring up their fear of abandonment. And that is why the only thing that affects them is shunning.

    In my mind, the psychopaths ARE pitiable. They have the most miserable existence possible. Evil is the MASK of shame. A shame so unbearable that it turns to evil for power.

  9. Yes, this psychopath’s full blown narcissism was so palpable under the anonymity. True 180. Boy, Skylar, you couldn’t have picked a greater name for your website!

    I wonder if the ex psycho you were with lived under those conditions for the sole purpose of masking it elsewhere. Even if not, I believe the concept of hoarding still applies because he wanted everything you were and had. I figure if they aren’t hoarding in a material sense they are hoarding in their evil heads, trying to collect the souls of others.

    If this psychopath has targeted children I would not be surprised, but because laws provide far more protection for humans than animals she probably avoids it for fear of getting caught. I’ll go read the link you provided about Breivik.

    In “Rose Of The World,” Daniel Andreev remarked about warning readers not to pity demons. I have to say I can’t bring myself to pity them in any way, regardless of their nightmare existence and whatever its origins. Mr. Andreev implied to pity a demon was a trap. I agree with him on that. While a part of me feels a sense of compassion too for any human condition, I stop myself quickly and let my natural instinct of repulsion stay to the fore.

    Psychopaths aren’t even good for compost LOL. It would soil and desecrate our beautiful planet to even leave their ashes near anything and anyone living. Better to toss them from planes into an active volcano 🙂

    • My ex-spath, lived like that so he could be mobile and ready to run if his mask was ever torn off. And that’s exactly what he did. He blew out of town. They always have an exit strategy planned. I can guarantee you that.

      • Thanks Ancient Heart,
        I have considered it. I wouldn’t want to write just another “Encounter with a Psychopath” Tell All book. It would have to serve a purpose. And so, I’m not sure what form it would take.

        I do appreciate the encouragement. 🙂

        BTW, you may have noticed that dramatized2’s posts are gone. She requested that I delete them because she was afraid that her ex-spath may find find this site.

        • Skylar, I second the vote on you writing the book. Actually, I think you and AncientHeart and slimone, etc, etc, could all co- author a best seller. You are all very wise and powerful, and very eloquent writers. Thank you for sharing that with me.

          • Don’t sell yourself short. I think you are both, and a lot of the others on this site are amazing. I lead a rather socially sheltered life so coming across this site and all the wisdom and insight on this blog has been refreshing and reassuring. Not to mention that the last two years of my life have been spent in a vacuum in that department. To have a conversation of any substance with Spath was, well….basically it didn’t happen. That was a red flag, kind of an awkward lack of substance. I was the chatter box but when it was his turn……..nothing. I can remember asking him questions about his past, his childhood, first sexual experience, etc… He would give a brief reply then……nothing. He would never answer and then ask, ” so what about you?” I think back on ALL of it and can picture a look on my face, like the look you get when you don’t understand something in that WTF way? I’ve got that look going on right now! Just thinking to myself, what was that? What was I thinking?!?!

        • I don’t think your own personal experience would be “just another story” about a psychopath, but writing about that experience in a book format may not be personally desirable because who wants to go back and relive the hideous. Especially when, as you have indicated, the overall behavior is the same. If something comes to you, and you do write a book in the future, I know it’ll be a keeper 🙂

        • Skylar, an idea came to me and I don’t want to publicize it on the Internet. Do you have an anonymous contact form where I can share the idea with you?

          • Ancient Heart,
            yes, the contact form is under the “About 180rule.com” tab at the top in the middle.

  10. I just finished the article about Breivik.

    I’m certain science and psychiatry have enough information and technology to detect psychopathy, whether at early development or later, why aren’t they utilizing it on behalf of humanity to prevent such horrors?

    • Ancient Heart,
      they aren’t using the knowledge because most of humanity is complicit. Abuse and scapegoating has been part of the human condition for ever. Nobody wants to rock the boat too much. The fact is that evil is easy to recognize, but hard to face, so we pretend we didn’t see it. Evil doesn’t like to be ignored.

      • That is one enormous and ugly truth, Skylar.

        I battled with my own demons and it took decades of soul searching, pain and painful mistakes. The majority of that pain had its roots in my childhood (shocker LOL) and it wasn’t until my early 40’s that a path and purpose of service seemed to put everything into proper perspective, and I fully immersed myself and felt truly whole. Several years later I endeavored to share that with others, and everything I had worked for and was dedicating myself to was destroyed. Had the psychopath not targeted me, I think I would have managed to fight the smaller demons. There were plenty of them. Seeing that it was envy, thanks to your insights, knowledge and understanding here, it has been a big help to me.

        The experience in fact seemed to be aimed at regressing me back to a dark and pretty painful childhood and its associated traumas, i.e., the slime I finally got out of. I had worked through it and turned it into power to help others, that was the problem. I became “evil.” Just nuts!

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