Jul 052013
 

Scandal in the Catholic Church

On July 1, 2013, the Archbishop of MilwaukeeJerome E. Listecki released almost 6000 documents related to his Archdiocese’s handling of the sex abuse cases.  Because of the current sex abuse scandal, the Catholic Church has an opportunity to teach and to lead on the topic of abuse.  It could examine the behaviors of the offender priests and the reactions of their superiors and shine a light on the patterns of grooming, betrayal, deceit and shame.  It could tell the story of how abusers cover their crimes and convince others to be complicit in those crimes through rationalizing, justifying and blame shifting.  Instead, the Catholic Church had to be dragged kicking and screaming through the court system and even still, they are making excuses for their failure to protect the most innocent.

Before the release of those documents, Archbishop Listecki made a statement on his blog about the nature of those documents and the handling of the cases of child sex abuse in the archdiocese.  He explains decades of sweeping abuse under the rug, basically, by saying that they didn’t know better, but now they know better so they will do better:

“But, we know that bad things happened to innocent children and youth.  The arc of understanding sexual abuse of a minor progressed from being seen as a moral failing and sin that needed personal resolve and spiritual direction; to a psychological deficiency that required therapy and could be cured; to issues of addiction requiring more extensive therapy and restrictions on ministry; to recognition of the long-term effects of abuse and the need to hold the perpetrator accountable for this criminal activity.”

Instead of leading, they profess that they were only following whichever ” arc of understanding sexual abuse of a minor”  happened to be in vogue at the time. It’s reminiscent of the “I was only doing what everyone else was doing” excuse.  His statement fails to address the betrayal and disillusionment that the victims –and all Catholics– are left feeling in the wake of this scandal.  At the moment when we most need spiritual leadership and solace, the clergy failed us again.  We are still left feeling scandalized.

♪♫For The Bible Tell Me So♫♪

I would say that it’s ironic that a religion based on the teachings of Jesus couldn’t just look it up in “the manual” , to know better:

5 And he that shall receive one such little child in my name, receiveth me. 6 But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh.

Matthew 18:5-71

Except it’s not ironic –it’s classic.  It’s a classic pattern of an abuser, to say that “bad things happened” or “mistakes were made” in the third person.  There is no ownership, no responsibility.

Archbishop Listecki goes on to say:

“I do not offer this as an excuse, but rather, as examples of the complexity of the topic and the context in which decisions were made.  In dealing with reports, I am convinced those who served in positions of authority may have been ill-equipped to deal with the topic and relied upon the advice of medical professionals who provided therapy to perpetrators.”

Apparently they were misled by the medical professionals, so it’s not their fault.  As long as they can find another authority to blame, they can say they were only following orders.  In this case, it was the therapists’ orders.

While it’s always a good idea to get recommendations from authorities, such as medical professionals who have more knowledge and experience, in the end we will have to own our behavior.  In the end we are responsible for our actions.  To say that we blindly followed an authority does not absolve responsibility.

Empowerment

As Archbishop Listecki says, it is a complex topic, there is no denying that.  Pedophiles, like these offender priests or like Jerry Sandusky, are psychopaths.  They prey on the innocent by wearing the cloak of goodness and authority, they take without caring, they slime others into covering for them and they never take responsibility. The crisis that the Church and its members are now enduring is very similar to what one experiences when one survives a psychopathic attack or any type of abusive relationship.  It should be a teaching moment, a time for learning about abusers and boundaries so that we can benefit from the painful experience and feel empowered.

The Catholic Church is, itself, a powerful authority.  Supposedly it’s THE authority on good and evil.  It has the power, the authority and the opportunity to turn this scandal into a huge stepping stone in humanity’s moral growth by teaching about the complex topic of hidden abuse.  Instead, the topic has become a huge stumbling block over which they keep falling but they don’t seem to see.  Their attempt to hide the shameful behavior, then to deny it and now to deny responsibility keeps them doing the same shameful thing over and over, but never learning from it.  It’s the typical pattern of the abuser.

see no evilSee No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil

Priests are supposed to be the emissaries of Christ but in my experience I was not able to get any priest to discuss the subject of evil or abusive people.  I went to three different churches, asking for help in understanding the evil I had encountered.  The first priest told me there was no evil, the second priest jumped up from his desk and ran out the door in fear, and the third priest simply gave me a business card for a therapist.  Then they wonder why people are abandoning the Church.

Jesus said that scandals must come.  This is because as long as there is innocence in the world, deceivers will seek to prey on that innocence.  But it won’t be just the innocent who are scandalized, anyone who willfully turns the blind eye of denial on the predator will be slimeed as well.  Woe to those by whom the scandal comes.

 

1. Matthew 18:5-7. Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Gospel According to Saint Matthew Chapter 18. 04 July 2013 <http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47018.htm>.

  211 Responses to “Scandal Must Come Milwaukee Archdiocese releases 6,000 documents

  1. Happy Holidays, to everyone – the Solstice is done, and longer days (and, warmer weather?) are on the way. Hope and renewal in the offing…..

    It is my fervent wish and prayer that we each continue down our own Healing Path and discover our inner strengths and beauty through recovery and healing.

    An ancient Navajo prayer for each of us:

    In beauty may I walk
    All day long may I walk
    Through the returning seasons may I walk
    Beautifully will I possess again
    Beautifully birds,
    Beautifully joyful birds
    On the trail marked with pollen may I walk
    With grasshoppers about my feet may I walk
    With dew about my feet may I walk
    With beauty may I walk
    With beauty before me may I walk
    With beauty behind me may I walk
    With beauty above me may I walk
    With beauty all around me may I walk
    In old age, wandering on a trail of beauty, lively, may I walk
    In old age, wandering on a trail of beauty, living again, may I walk
    It is finished in beauty.
    It is finished in beauty.

  2. Thank you for that poem, truthy, and we do need to look at the BEAUTY around us, even the small things. One year when I was in such deep depression, there were some wild flowers blooming even in the fall right out side my bedroom window. I focused on those flowers for literally weeks before they finally faded. Just those tiny flowers kept me focused in an otherwise dark and colorless landscape.

    Not long ago I looked out and those plants were blooming again, and they reminded me that I had made it through that long dark winter then and I will make it through this one.

    Peace to all and as we turn the calendar pages to a new year, let us all give thanks for the beauty in our lives. God bless.

  3. That’s a beautiful poem Truthy.

    Thank you both, Truthy and Oxy, for reminding me to look at the beauty around me. During these dark winter days everything can seem so monochromatic and gloomy. It takes a little more effort to look on the bright side when we barely get any light but it CAN be done!

    • I have always been interested in Native and aboriginal approaches. Most of the Native American nations were not aggressive and warmongering, particularly the Navajo. The poem that I posted is actually a “sing” or chant that was an affirmation that Life Is Good and that there is beauty even in the structure of slate. Everything was sacred, from the tiniest grain of sand, to the mesmerizing “sun devils” that science so cleanly explains. Each thing had its place in the World, and beauty in all things was an essential belief.

      For me, the chant is calming and reassuring, just as the option of finding meaning from personal suffering can be liberating. I certainly don’t “like” the things that I’ve experienced, but those hardships, betrayals, and the desperation have all opened up a new path of discovery and recovery.

      My personal vision may be narrow, but I see two options:
      a) roll over and live within the status of “victim” until I die alone and in misery, or
      b) find the meaning for these lessons and apply them to my recovery and healing processes

      I’ve never been one to “give up,” so to speak – being a “quitter” was one of the beliefs that was pounded into my head that contributed to my remaining with an abusive spouse for so many years. But, that belief that “quitters stink” is faulty – if I “give up” on myself, I’m only harming my Self, and nobody else. I’ll quit a toxic association in a New York minute, but I finally “get it” that rolling over and remaining a victim does nothing for me, personally. There is NO personal triumph by remaining a victim.

      I aspire to be “that person” that is triumphant and serene. As much as reaching the summit of Mount Kilimajaro, so is it a personal triumph to find my personal serenity. 🙂

    • Truthspeak, I hate to differ with you about the Navajos, and many o f the WESTERN tribes, I have just finished reading several well researched sociological studies of the western Native americans and unfortunately they were VERY warlike among themselves as well as with the “white eyes” who were determined to wipe them out like vermin, so the “culture” of the Native Americans in the plains was from the get go a WAR and WARRIOR culture with the women being essentially chattel. that doesn’t mean though that they were treated fairly by the land grabbing whites. Captives (whether white or from other tribes) were generally treated like slaves and severely beaten, especially women. There are some contemporary writings from previously captive white women, Quanah Parker’s mother for one. she was a white woman captured at age 9, who voluntarily stayed with her native husband and children and was eventually brought back to be kept captive by the white family who treated her as some sort of idiot, but her sister and several other women came back horribly scarred with ears and noses burned off and they had been captured as children and used as slaves. Women, even the native women of the tribes were generally not well treated. Boys were never made to work, all the work was done by the women except killing some game, but the work of skinning and processing the hides was all women’s work, ditto in the tribes that planted crops, a man’s job was WAR and by WAR was how he earned his place in the tribe, so the myth of the “noble savage” is just that, myth for the most part. The myth of the noble soldier protecting the white farms was also a myth, they were the worst of the worst and most of the soldiers were pretty brutal, shooting and attacking camps of women and children, scalping them afterwards.

      The poor Natives who did come into the reservations were treated horribly and starved and in some cases killed. Sitting Bull who gave up was killed by his own people who were “guards” in the Res when they went to “arrest him” for the Ghost Dance which was a new religion that the natives thought would make the white men disappear.

      History is written by the “winners” for the most part, but if you research the real history of things you find that most of the “pioneers” were less than what we would consider “honest” today…and having no thought for the life of anyone outside their culture, and the natives were the same way, so it was a clash of two cultures, neither of which was “kind or noble.” LOL In fact, if you study history (and you know I am a history buff!) I have seen very few “heroes” who were either kind or noble…many of them had very high P traits, rash, bold, impulsive, and like custer, an idiot as well. I just finished a very detailed book about Custer’s last stand with narratives from the people who were in the same group that attacked Sitting Bull’s camp, and custer divided his forces so HE COULD HAVE ALL THE GLORY, and his group was what was wiped out, and another man who was in charge of another group of that hated custer and could have come to custer’s rescue but CHOSE NOT TO because he hated Custer. LOL Both men, I think from what I read were both high in glory seeking, narcissism and spite.

      In that one case at least, the Indians were in a huge winter camp, with most of the remaining Natives from five different tribes banded together to try to survive the winter when the Army attacked with the design of wiping them out, but not realizing there were probably 8,000 in the camp with 1,400 warriiors or possibly more. Plus the natives actually had better guns than the Army.

      From the time the white men landed in “America” in 1492, the entire goal was to wipe out and/or enslave the natives, and the five “Civilized” tribes in the east were abused and killed or marched to Oklahoma or the black hills until the whties found otu there were minerals there, in which case they wanted the land.

      Brutality among the early pioneering white and brutality on the parts of most of the native Americans was pretty much on a par. Just as it is in much of the third world country today where people will blow themselves up in order to kill others, including innocent men, women and children in the name of “culture” or “religion.”

      The idea of living a peaceful life, one filled with kindness and compassion, rather than might makes right, I think is not the norm for mankind at any period in history. Maybe that makes me a cynic but with the number of people who believe that others do not have value, and can therefore be used and abused…whether they lack “value:” as a culture, or as an individual, I think tends to be the “norm” rather than the exception.

      There ARE good people, people who are honest, kind, caring, compassionate and giving…but too few and too far between. If you look at most areas of the world today you can read all about it. Killing for the sake of killing, stealing, defrauding, etc. even in our own country…whether they be bank robbers with a gun, or the Bernie Maddofs of this world, or a governor like Edwards or Bloggo or would be politician like anthony Weiner, or those judges that I’ve been posting on who give a RAPIST 30 days in jail, or another brutal beast a sentence of writiing “boys don’t hit girls” 5,000 times. LOL If it weren’t so awful it would be funny. To those of us who want peace, it behooves us to learn to avoid those who would abuse us to the best of our ability. Unfortunately there are way too many people who are unable to avoid violence because they live in a country rife with abuse from their own culture and those who are trying to take over the country. God bless us all in the new year, and keep us as safe as we can be.

      As Dr. Viktor Frankl wrote, it is only how we find meaning in our lives no matter what happens to us that makes us able to have peace, at least within our own souls. It is difficult sometimes for me to keep that in mind when the forces outside my control take over and bring “drama” to my life, but i t is what I STRIVE for, and only by striving for that can we even think we may achieve it. I figure if Dr. Frankl can find that meaning in a Nazi prison camp, I ought to be able to do likewise.

      • OxD, absolutely there were some terrible aspects of many aboriginal nations and peoples! The Navajo were one of the most interesting Nations to me because it was a matriarchal social structure – the men took the clan of their wives, and the women “held” the winter and summer grounds, etc.

        I keep mentioning the movie titled, “Apocalypto,” and it is precisely what Sky described about the brutalities of the Aztec culture. It is a MUST-SEE, but only if the viewer has watched “Braveheart” and other similar movies due to the violence involved.

        History is only “history” according to whom was recording or recollecting. It’s all about perspective. Even our own personal histories are told from our personal perspectives. That’s not to say that we’re filing in gaps or embellishing our experiences, but it’s about our feelings and our perspectives with regard to our own experiences. To most people, my “story” is too outrageous to be true, as are the stories that each one of us can tell. That’s why we tell our stories to those who “get it” and have their own personal frame of references. With reference to the Native American struggles, there STILL is the pervasive belief that I (and, all of European descent) am somehow responsible for the extermination of whole Nations, and the treatment of the survivors. This is an example of a culture of blame and holding onto the past in a very unhealthy manner – it’s a roadblock. This is not to say that reviving rituals and customs is “living in the past,” whatsoever. But, I am not responsible for the past 500 years, and I won’t accept that expectation.

        I am so WAY into Frankl’s words and concepts. Finding meaning in our lives is rather the most empowering aspiration that I can imagine – THAT, to me (personally) is when I can truly say that I am in recovery and healing. That will be the point when I can actually say that I’ve “moved on.”

        And, “moving on,” or, “getting over it,” doesn’t translate (to me, anyway) into forgetting or pretending that I never experienced the things that I have. It means that I’ve accepted those events as past experiences and I will have FOUND that meaning and carry serenity and purpose instead of shame and resentment.

        So, here’s to 2014 – another year under my belt, and, to coin that phrase, “Today is the first day of the rest of my life.”

        Happy New Year to everyone, and a HUGE TOWANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😀

        • Truthy, you are totally right…the winners write the history so it is slanted by their perceptions, but recently I have been enjoying some “revised” history by researchers who are digging deeper behind what the “powers that be” have tried to present as “facts” when in fact, it was a media spin, even back in the 16th and 17th centuries. LOL

          Back when I was a kid I thought wars were fought for “mom, apple pie and the right” but now I finally realize that ALL wars are fought because one side wants what the other side has. Now the one who is being “attacked” may also have percipitated the hate of the attacking side by previous attacks of their own. Just like in what used to be the USSR, the various factional groups that hated each other are still fighting, and in the middle east and Africa the tribal warfare continues since the dawn of history.

          In our own country the only difference I see in the political parties is how the spoils are split, yet they try to tell us that “we are the government and we are here to help the poor man” LOL Yet the top 1% of the rich own 90% of all American resources, the other 99% own the other 10%.

          The strong try to steal or take from the weaker…but we don’t have to volunteer to be their “banks” or to give them what we have, so we do have some choices.

          I am SO GLAD that you are enjoying Frankl’s book…Truthy, I can truly say that his book was my turning point from the BOTTOM of the ABYSS when I could not even see the light at the top of the hole I was so deep.

          I think this year is going to be a good year and a positive year so here’s a big “toast” to us all and a prayer for our continued progress into becoming the people that we want to be. God bless us all.

        • Truthy and Oxy,
          that is basically Rene Girard’s point, that history, mythology and religious rituals are filled with “Victim Blaming” aka Scapegoating.

          It seems to be a human tendency to blame the one person who cannot defend themselves. According to Girard, this is how we short-circuit reciprocal violence, since the victim can’t reciprocate, either because they are dead or because they are too weak. And supposedly, this restores order in the community because it stops the cycle of violent retribution.

          But Girard points to Jesus’ words, “How can Satan expel Satan?” He interprets these words to mean that violence of any kind, cannot really restore order. The cycle of violence has to be repeated over and over again.

          • Truthspeak

            Sky and Oxy, it seems such a waste of time and resources to inflict “righteous” violence, doesn’t it? So, this culture/society has terrific fertile land, and the other culture/society doesn’t. Taking that land, by force, won’t solve the problem, in the long run, and it appears that not one nation has ever considered what the long-term impact of warring against others would be.

            Today, we are supposed to be a society of guaranteed personal freedoms. But, there are over 40,000 new laws that came into effect at the stroke of midnight, today. FORTY THOUSAND new laws, and most of them are so outrageous that time, funding, and energy was expended to write them up, debate them, and vote them into Laws. WTF?

            Rather than spending time healing the hurts of the world, societies are spending time, money, and energy reigning in everything from using seat belts in vehicles as mandatory, to being legally allowed to take home a placenta from the hospital.

            “How can Satan expel Satan?” is a very intriguing question because the answer is, “He can’t.” People are what they are, and the human nature is what it is.

            I posted about Bob’s breakdown and he wants to “make” the psychiatrist “care” about having not HEARD the words that Bob was saying during their last Skype session. Bob still cannot “get it” that he (me, Jesus, anyone) cannot force someone to care that doesn’t have the ability to do so. The doctor isn’t going to “feel bad” that his patient wound up in the ER. He’s just going to look at optional medications. And, that’s as far as it goes. Bob isn’t a human being – he is a vessel that requires a different combination of chemicals, and that vessel is a guaranteed source of income. The psychiatrist doesn’t care and he cannot be shamed INTO caring. He earns $75 for a 15-minute medicine check over Skype with each patient that he has through this particular counseling group. That’s just in one office. If this psychiatrist sees one patient for 15 minutes during an 8-hour day, he is making $12,000.00 per week. In a single year, this man “earns” $624,000.00 per year. What does he care if one of his patients ends up in the ER or commits suicide?

            I’ve typed about this, before, but the words that my divorce attorney AND counseling therapist each used in the very same day were, “He doesn’t care.” I could not – literally could not – process this fact. HOW can another human being that isn’t locked up and behind bars just ****not care?**** Sure, I knew about sociopathy, psychopathy, and other disorders that caused people to have no regard for human life – they didn’t have a conscience, sense of empathy, or feelings of remorse for anything that they did. I understood that this was true. But, how could I have entered into a second contract of marriage with someone that simply didn’t care? Well, I did, and I’m learning about myself and why I chose this person.

            My fantasy world would be where each and every person sought to heal themselves and the hurts of the world through kindness, support, encouragement, and serenity. Well, it’s a nice fantasy, but that’s all that it is – FANTASY. Even in communes where these values are supposedly practiced, SOMEONE is in a leadership position and determines what will and will not apply.

            SO, it seems that society is doomed to repeat the past, over and over, and over. But, I’m out of my personal past, and determined to live in the present.

  4. Oxy,
    As a history buff, you might like this article I just read. It is a commentary on human nature, written from the perspective of the extinction of the passenger pigeon. This bird which numbered in the billions –more passenger pigeons could be seen in one swarm, than all the “common” rock pigeons that exist in the whole world today — was driven to complete extinction in 50 years. Among other things, the article examines human attitudes such as empathy and racism and how those attitudes contributed to the extinction. The author also notes that human beings, like the passenger pigeon, tend to “use things up”.

    http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2014/01/06/140106crbo_books_rosen?currentPage=all

    I think that if we step back and look at human behavior, not from one side or another, but from a more objective perspective, we can see that human beings are all the same: we have empathy for those closest to us and we are rivalrous toward those that are not like us. Psychopaths take this to an extreme in that they stand alone. Nobody is enough like them to merit their compassion. They see themselves apart from humanity, which is why they are apart from humanity.
    Still, there is something slightly different about the Native American mythologies that stands out: they spoke of the coyote “trickster”. This character is analogous to “the devil” in Christianity, but they don’t really demonize the trickster. They see him as a necessary part of the tapestry because his trickery reveals to us our vulnerabilities. The psychopath is analogous to the devil as well as to the trickster. As many of us have found, we DO learn a lot about ourselves from an encounter with evil.

    And of course we have the Aztec religion which was in full blown worship of the evil god Tezcatlipoca, by the time that Cortez showed up. Tezcatlipoca was the evil “dark” brother of the “good” god Quetzalcoatl — the sun god. All the sacrificial victims were killed to appease Tezcatlipoca, even the ones that were sacrificed on Quetzalcoatl’s pyramids. So that was a culture that was embracing the dark side — so to speak. The Aztecs were hoping that Cortez was Quetzalcoatl, returning to end the reign of the evil Tez. Speaking of tricksters, were they in for a shock! Cortez was just another spath requiring more death.

    In my mind, the Aztec experience illustrates how a psychopath takes advantage of people who don’t want to accept responsibility. The Aztec’s were waiting patiently to be saved from death and destruction and Cortez appeared to promise that. Yet it was a trick to gain power. But the Aztecs could have saved themselves, since it was they who were in control of their own actions.

    It’s easy to see this from a historical perspective, when we aren’t in the drama of it all. It’s much harder to see when we disown responsibility and give our power away to a psychopath –until it’s too late.

    • Skylar, I was reading an article today ab out a Saudi prince who murdered someone and one of the powerful princes said that this “unnamed” royal prince would be put to death (or COULD be put to death) because the religious law applied to both rich and poor…BUT the victim’s family can take “blood money” and the killer can go free…and the victim’s family was saying that the blood money “wasn’t enough.” LOL Yea, Justice is only for those who cannot pay enough blood money…yea, the same for rich or poor….righttttttt! But that is their culture and the way that they see things as “right” though we as a society are supposed to see that as “wrong.”

      So things that are “right” ini one culture are “wrong” in another…things that are cruel or bad in one are accepted as right and just in another…and then of course things change as cultures evolve. How long ago has it been that people were jailed for being homosexual, or how long ago was slavery okay in our country, or women not having the vote? Or wives being beaten with sticks by their husbands or not being able to own property?

      How about people blowing themselves up in the name of religion so they can kill others of another religiion or no religion, or a different political party?

      Man’s inhumanity to man always has been and I think always will be from the dawn of time until our star gives out and implodes, if humanity lasts that long.

      All we can do is to decide which set of values we want to live by, that we will treat others by and that we will allow others to treat us by (if we have any choice in the matter.) If we are “invaded from Mars, or Russia or China we may not have a choice, but if we DO have a choice to be abused or not, then we must take that choice and leave the situation while we are still standing and still alive. We must honor ourselves….and live in such a manner that we can obtain peace in our lives. Living good is the best revenge, but we are never going to change human nature, it will always be what it will be, we can only change ourselves.

      • OxD, 100% spot-on. Mankind has always battled over one thing, or another. Whether it was land, minerals, food, or religious beliefs, there have always been people who attempt to force their views on others. One contemporary example of this is the Westboro Baptist Church whose members espouse hatred, intolerance, and ridicule using God as an excuse for their hatred. There have been, and always will be, cultures that do not meet our own personal criteria or standards, and we do not have any control over how these cultures are.

        It’s a matter of control, just as you pointed out. I can only control myself, my actions, my beliefs, and my decisions.

    • Oxy,
      At least the family in the saudi courts is given a CHOICE to accept money or to exact revenge.

      I don’t see any difference between the blood money of the saudi prince and the high priced lawyers in our courts. Whoever has the most money wins — in both courts.

      When I was young, I went to court to contest a speeding ticket. The public “defender” was assisting those who didn’t have their own lawyer. A few people before me told the judge that since the cop who issued their ticket was not present, they wanted their ticket dropped. The judge agreed.

      It happened that the same cop had issued my ticket, so I was ready with the same argument. But when my turn came, the public defender suggested that I request some kind of reduced fine. I pointed out that there was no case without the cop. She said, “oh, yeah.” I was thinking WTF? whose side was she on?

      If I hadn’t heard the previous defendants use that argument, I wouldn’t have known about it. I was very young and inexperienced. I think the lawyer saw my youth and thought I was too dumb to rub two brain cells together. But what I never understood, was, what was in it for her?

      Now I know that, offten times, it’s not even about money, it’s just about malice. That’s why it’s so unexpected.

      • Truthspeak

        Sky, the example that you provided about the public defense attorney and the speeding ticket is just one more example of human disregard. The PA “didn’t care” because she was going to be paid whether you were fined, or not. That you were young and inexperienced factored into the depth of her disregard for the clients that she was paid to defend.

        Eugh……..

  5. Sky, I agree with Truthy a bout “what was in it” for the PD…she had the same “defense” for everyone and it never crossed her mind that there was any other way…just give “rote” advice without thinking about it.

    I only fought one ticket and it was for $15 and it was out of town (years ago) because I got rear ended and the cop ticketed ME. He also tried to get date…and I think me telling him to fark off was what made him give me the ticket. He was in court, but the judge canceled my ticket and the same cop had ticketed a FIRE TRUCK for passing on the right shoulder. LOL The judge was NOT happy with him at all. It cost me more gas money even then to go fight the ticket, but it was worth it. LOL

  6. Truthy and Oxy,
    It didn’t have to cross her mind. Everyone in the courtroom heard the defendants (there were a few) who used that defense to dismiss their cases, including the one just before my case.

    Oxy, the cop who tried to get a date from you definitely needed to get put in his place! I’m glad you fought the ticket even though it cost you gas money. If enough people pulled his mask off over the years, maybe he found another line of work.

  7. Sky, I don’t know about that but I DO know the judge was FRIED at him for ticketing a fire truck on the way to a fire! LOL Talk about a JERK. Yea, and after court he asked me out again, so I don’t think he learned much. LOL He was an older guy, I was about 32, so I imagine he eventually retired, but he was still in uniform so I figure he didn’t “advance” much in his several years of work on the force, probably because he was such a jerk. But many times people high in P traits get jobs where they can “boss people around” and being a cop is one of those.

    I still to this day and it’s been over 30 years ago can’t believe ANY cop ticketing a fire truck!

  8. I’ve been watching the news lately and am glad to see that the Penn state guys who covered up are being PROSECUTED, and the guys that covered up the Trent Mays Ma’lik rape case in Stubenville are being prosecuted….and some of the people who covered up for the priests as well…

    But I am also disappointed to learn that many rapists are being allowed off with a slap on the wrist…the latest being that kid that used as his defense that his parents were so affluent that they didn’t give him a proper upbringing so he wasn’t responsible because they were so rich. DUH???? what the heck are these judges thinking?

    I also see that the army and other military groups are being highly pressured to quit covering up rape in the military…

    All these things together though show that we have a longggggg way to go in dealing with molesters and rapists of both adults and children.

  9. Frontlinegirl, you are so right! I too am a Christian who was raised in a fundamental sect that believed that they were the only ones who had a direct line to God…fortunately I realized that they were wrong. I can read the Bible for myself and determine what it says. I found a new closeness to God that is a great comfort to me. Some of the psychopaths that have been in my life have ridiculed my beliefs as well.

    I take it that you are still living with your husband, I know that must be very difficult to live in a “war zone” I’ve been there myself and it isn’t an easy situation.

    Yes, I agree with you that most people who have lived in dysfunctional or abusive situations take quite some time to get out of it and STAY out. Many women of my acquaintance will dump one abuser and go right back and find another one, because they don’t learn the REAL REASONS that they were abused. Truthy is right, we have to fix ourselves before we can have a healthy relationship with anyone, including ourselves.

    I also realized that “healing” is not a destination, but a journey and we must keep on that journey. Too many times I went a ways down the road, declared myself “healed” and ended up in another dysfunctional relationship.

    • I am still in the throws of the battle guys.. And have been hypervigilent for a long time. There is no time for therapy or self healing here. Don’t even have time to paint my toenails or fingernails. But this site does give me affirmation that there are others that have to suffer through this type of abuse. I have to say I laugh a lot while reading posts here, because there is so much to identify with that I personally have experienced. And I love the coined phrases that Skyler and the rest of you come up with to describe the spaths behavior and tactics..Priceless stuff . And while I’m on the subject of laughing, that is another effective weapon that we can effectively use in our arsenal.. Don’t be afraid to laugh..It frees you to be who you are. And validates your personal identity. They actually hate that as it is not something that they can control or understand.
      I can not just “yet get myself out, ( and no I am not co-dependent) but I am all for helping others engaged in the same battle .

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